Dr. Andrew Wakefield interview – “Vaccines and Rupert Murdoch’s Callous Disregard” – #120

This episode is an interview with Dr. Andrew Wakefield, titled "Vaccines - Rupert Murdoch’s Callous Disregard" and is being released on Wednesday, July 27, 2011. My interview with Andrew was recorded on July 26, 2011.

I said I’d have today’s guest on more than a year ago. For what ever reason, the interview slipped through the cracks. Recent events in the media have brought him to the forefront once again. And I’m talking about Dr. Andrew Wakefield.

Dr. Andrew Wakefield, MB, BS, FRCS, FRCPath, is an academic gastroenterologist. He received his medical degree from St. Mary’s Hospital Medical School (part of the University of London) in 1981, one of the third generation of his family to have studied medicine at that teaching hospital. He pursued a career in gastrointestinal surgery with a particular interest in inflammatory bowel disease. He qualified as Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons in 1985 and in 1996 was awarded a Wellcome Trust Traveling Fellowship to study small-intestinal transplantation in Toronto, Canada. He was made a Fellow of the Royal College of Pathologists in 2001. He has published over 130 original scientific articles, book chapters, and invited scientific commentaries.

In the pursuit of possible links between childhood vaccines, intestinal inflammation, and neurologic injury in children, Dr. Wakefield lost his job in the Department of Medicine at London’s Royal Free Hospital, his country, his career, and his medical license.

He is married to Carmel, a physician and a classical radio presenter. He has four children, James, Sam, Imogen, and Corin.



  39 comments for “Dr. Andrew Wakefield interview – “Vaccines and Rupert Murdoch’s Callous Disregard” – #120

  1. red
    July 27, 2011 at 3:53 am

    This sounds demonic, sorry but strange so-called people rule this planet .

    • elly dozer
      September 26, 2013 at 5:58 pm

      You are right, but if you didn’t want to sound nuts to the family you could use those people’s names.

  2. david llewellyn foster
    July 27, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    Astonishing interview Jan. Brave New World indeed! Words like shocking, scandalous, criminal, immediately come to mind; it is therefore ironic that these typically tabloid epithets are in this instance most aptly descriptive of the media mogul & son who are so utterly complicit in this deadly affair. What adds even more gravitas to the accusations is the extent to which the “ethical” establishment is now found so abysmally guilty of malpractice and professional misconduct – caught red-handed so to speak.

    The entire corporate, scientific and political community is deeply tainted by the implications of this calumny. What it really means is that our most revered principles of government and due process in the UK, have been totally corrupted by corporate venality. This is exactly the situation Dr Mae-Wan Ho has been describing for years, with respect to the coercive and intimidating practices of the GM lobby and their totalitarian suppression of independent science. As Dr Wakefield puts it so well, professional dissent is essential – for without such open critical analysis science cannot evolve. Consensual conjectural “proofs” are indeed a dangerous PR conceit, when all hypotheses ought to be wide open to independent evidence-based verification OR refutation – by anyone, not just “experts.”

    A strong case in point is the extremely complex science of climate change. Personally I do not doubt that extreme climate events are occurring as a direct result of human actions (or inaction,) but I still remain open to persuasive alternative “natural” and cosmic interpretations. So far as I can determine however, nothing yet has been presented that is as coherent and systemically plausible as the current models that factor the effects of deforestation, pollution, atmospheric CO2 from fossil fuels and other greenhouse gases like methane from cattle and termites and so on.

    By the way, the issue of animal testing came up in the course of this conversation. It would be interesting to hear from someone with a passionate devotion to animal rights willing to have a deep discussion about “biophilia” and what it really means to be a healthy bio-empathic human in a world shared by other primates and sentient creatures. Joanna Harcourt-Smith seems to specialise in talking to people with those kinds of life-agendas on her http://www.futureprimitive.org/ website. I dare say you already know it well.

    Thanks for a splendid interview. Highly commendable.

  3. Bill
    July 28, 2011 at 1:24 am

    “Unfettered capitalism” is not the cause of our problems. CORPORATISM, or more aptly, FASCISM, is our problem. The merger of state and corporate power is fascism…not capitalism. We have a merger of state and corporate power through our election process via campaign contributions.

    Elect Ron Paul 2012. Nuff said.

    • Keven
      July 30, 2011 at 9:09 am

      Fascism for sure….Ron Paul? Do you believe he is anything less than controlled opposition?? Our ‘system’ is unfortunately fatally flawed with the possibility of a ‘peoples candidate’ an all too predictable machination.

  4. July 29, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    Excellent interview. Kudos to Mr. Wakefield for putting his professional reputation on the line & standing on his convictions.

    @ Bill, it’s not capitalism, corporatism or fascism that is the cause of the world’s ills…I believe it is greed.

    What can cure human greed?

    • Keven
      July 30, 2011 at 12:11 pm

      @Ben. Greed is based in fear and in my opinion exaggerated/created by the “culture” of today. At the ‘elite” level the lust is for power rather than the accumulation of excess for the shear sake of it (in the absence of the psychopathic personality type of course). For the remaining 99.9% of the earths inhabitants I believe it is a culturely sanctioned exageration of the simple normal drive to be prepared for the possibility of future shortage. In short a perversion of a normal human tendancy/drive. The exploitation of normal human tendancies is at the heart of the consensus trance we collectively accept as reality and a well worn population/mind control technique. A cure?

  5. Paul
    July 31, 2011 at 2:42 am

    First of all, I hearby give whatever highest praise I can give to this podcast for interviewing Wakefield AND Duesberg. These are definately two of the most important names in medicine today and should be known by everyone.

    Second, it is outrageous that a doctor would call CPS on anyone for refusing the hepititis B vaccine for a newborn baby.

    I think this is a very important interview. I hope it gets the wide exposure it deserves.

  6. Ryan Caron
    July 31, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Whenever I think of Vaccines, I think of Bertrand Russell.

    “Diet, injections, and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible. Even if all are miserable, all will believe themselves happy, because the government will tell them that they are so.”
    -Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science on Society p50, 1953

    “Gradually, by selective breeding, the congenital differences between rulers
    and ruled will increase until they become almost different species. A revolt
    of the plebs would become as unthinkable as an organized insurrection of
    sheep against the practice of eating mutton.”
    *- Bertrand Russell, “The Impact of Science on Society”, 1953, pg 49-50*

    “In like manner, the scientific rulers will provide one kind of education
    for ordinary men and women, and another for those who are to become holders
    of scientific power. Ordinary men and women will be expected to be docile,
    industrious, punctual, thoughtless, and contented. Of these qualities,
    probably contentment will be considered the most important. In order to
    produce it, all the researches of psycho-analysis, behaviourism, and
    biochemistry will be brought into play…. All the boys and girls will learn
    from an early age to be what is called ‘co-operative,’ i.e., to do exactly
    what everybody is doing. Initiative will be discouraged in these children,
    and insubordination, without being punished, will be scientifically trained
    out of them.”

    • david llewellyn foster
      August 1, 2011 at 4:27 pm

      Indeed. The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance. As the old Russian joke used to run, the only difference during the cold-war between the Soviets and the Americans was that in the US they actually believed their own propaganda.

      Even in a projected political climate of “transparency and accountability” we can still be deceived. The only solution as Jan never tires of pointing out, is to think for oneself, and I would add, to demand the absolute right of self-determination…

    • elly dozer
      September 26, 2013 at 6:01 pm

      Yep. Totally batshit insane writings. That other batshit insane people believe.

  7. Louisa
    August 3, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Are you lot serious? Wakefield is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of children and the suffering of thousands more!

    • Jan Irvin
      August 3, 2011 at 3:24 pm

      You should try looking at the evidence from both sides and hear the interview before you jump to emotional reactions. We’re well aware of the charges against him. Have you once bothered to hear HIS side?

      • E.D.
        August 4, 2011 at 6:26 pm

        Easy Jan — your Wakefield interview was a triumph; don’t let yourself down by being drawn into and emotional exchange. (And please keep up the really great work!)

    • humanati
      October 3, 2011 at 3:43 pm

      Assuming you are not a paid shill, you are ignorant of the facts & have been propagandised.

      I speak as a parent of a child who was given autism by the DPT vaccine.

      Dr Andrew Wakefield is a man of integrity & great courage. He was at the very top of his profession & sacrificed it all because of his compassion & because he chose to tell the truth.

      Since doing so he has been smeared by a complicit & criminal media & medical mafia.

      All the parents of the children he studied support him.

      Parents know the truth of this man.

      Either inform yourself or stop regurgitating propaganda.

      Children are being poisoned, maimed & killed by vaccines & this is known by pharma & anyone who looks at the evidence with an open mind & desire to know the truth.

      I only want the truth, because only the truth will help my son.

      We are recovering my son by chelating the mercury out of his body & using diet & supplements to repair the damage caused by the mercury, formaldehyde & aluminium they injected into his body.

      It is a miracle & I tell all parents reading this that VACCINES ARE THE PRIMARY CAUSE OF AUTISM & CAN BE TREATED & IF TREATED EARLY CAN BE RECOVERED FROM.

      THANK YOU DR WAKEFIELD. You are a giant amongst men, sir.

      My thanks, love & respect to you for what you have done to help my son.

      In sacrificing your career to tell the truth, you have helped children recover & prevented untold numbers from being poisoned at all.

      Truly, you are a hero.

      You are loved for what you have done.

      • mark
        October 22, 2011 at 6:13 am

        wow. im so sorry to hear about your child. i saw a doc a while ago where they showed a mother “cure” her son of autism over time through basically nutrition. i hope that was real. it was quite convincing. its a serious battle for me to keep my child from being vaccinated. as for me, i take shots at the moment. if i refuse, i can lose property, and be put in jail. hopefully not for to much longer though.

        • elly dozer
          September 26, 2013 at 6:09 pm

          Take a look at the Slaves Anonymous content to the upper left, private property, natural rights, commercial law—- this helps you put yourself in the proper “constitution ” (frame of mind) -before you need it.

  8. August 3, 2011 at 10:06 pm

    thanks for sharing …….. Did you see that RAWESOME FOODS
    [665 Rose Ave Venice, CA 90291 (310) 452-2244 ] got raided today again because of the Raw Milk they sell !? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgrnVrYZ9x0

    People who are looking for an alternative to vaccines to strengthen their immune systems etc…….. should look into Raw Milk from Grass Fed Cows or goats from a local farm near where you live & see the difference compared to factory farmed animals-food ……

    via http://www.realmilk.com

    or http://www.eatwild.com/

    my family has been drinking raw cows milk from a small Amish farm in Ohio and our bones,teeth,digestion,complexion,immune systems etc…. have been as strong as an ox [smiles] ever since we quit eating all that Pasteurized-homogenized crap in the Super markets thats killing people ……… its sad that so called “scientific experts” believe in vaccines and demonize Natures perfect food that our indigenous ancestors ate-drank [when the animals + the environment is treated with authentic respect & care] for thousands of years with excellent vibrant health to show the documented evidence !

    real medicine = Truth

    take care + cheers yall !

  9. Jan Irvin
    August 5, 2011 at 9:01 am

    Here’s Brian Deer’s interview discussing Wakefield. In it Deer lays out his claims against Wakefield, which, in my opinion, Wakefield has done a substantial job in disproving these claims in his book. Of course it’s great to contrast the two. But please remember to check each source and claim and compare the evidence that Wakefield provides in his book – which is well footnoted.


    • August 5, 2011 at 2:29 pm

      Thanks 4 Sharing this also Jan !

      i appreciate an intelligent voice + understanding concerning this issue. About a month ago i created a blog with a plethora of links exposing the [HPV] Gardasil Vaccine Biological Chemical Dangers. Which can be found here if your interested. There is a video presentation near the center that exposes Brian Deer [in the head Lights]


      take care + cheers ……..

      • david llewellyn foster
        August 7, 2011 at 4:06 pm

        Brilliant contribution Medisin, thanks; have been watching the first half of that video this evening, must view the remainder tomorrow. Personally I cannot help but sense the invisible hand of the Murdoch machine at work here. When you have pockets that big they tend to accommodate all kinds of red-handed toadies and cronies. I reserve my judgement, but this business really stinks. It could be the tip of a colossal ‘berg.

        • david llewellyn foster
          August 8, 2011 at 3:40 am

          Finished watching Alan Golding’s really challenging film about Brian Deer and the GMC controversy, this morning. I posted the following comment:
          “Just finished watching the Alan Golding film. Exceedingly well done and provoking. This whole business is about ethics in medicine. It would seem on face value, that the highest levels of professional competence in the UK have been compromised by a type of “mafia” intervention orchestrated by vested interests. Something is deeply wrong here. If not, then we need to know what exactly has occurred and who is allegedly at fault… (I have left additional comments on Jan Irvin’s website logosmedia.com about his commendable interview with Dr Wakefield.)
          In the present climate of demonstrable News Corp. criminality that has so rocked Murdoch’s complacency and revealed his son’s token executive connection with Glaxo Smith Kline, it seems perfectly right that this matter of the GMC’s “unwillingness to uncover” the deeper implications and possible tragic consequences for so many affected children, should be opened up to more forensic scrutiny.
          The highly significant quote used in Alan Golding’s film is from Dr Peter Fletcher MB, PhD, FFPM, formerly Chief Scientific Officer and Senior Principal Medical Officer, Department of Health “There are very powerful people in positions of great authority in Britain and elsewhere who have staked their reputations and careers on the safety of MMR and they are willing to do almost anything to protect themselves.”
          Also pertinent is the following link
          Both Dr Fletcher & Dr Wakefield participated in a conference in March 2011 when you google this the BSEM websites comes up with
          Sorry, no posts matched your criteria.
          However if you click on cached you get
          Despite unfounded reports to the contrary, the scientific conference planned for 11 March is most definitely going ahead, and the BSEM looks forward to hosting a fascinating, instructive and constructive day.
          And if you click on this link
          you get the conference agenda, that I have pasted here for the record

          February 1, 2011
          Scientific conference 11 March, featuring speaker Dr Andrew Wakefield



          Welcoming remarks

          Dr Damien Downing, President, BSEM


          Routine vaccinations: the science

          Dr Jayne Donegan MBBS, MRCGP, DRCOG, DCH, General Practitioner, London


          The safety of medicinal products intended for healthy individuals

          Dr Peter Fletcher MB, PhD, FFPM, formerly Chief Scientific Officer and Senior Principal Medical Officer, Department of Health




          Part 1 Experts in ignorance: evidence-based medicine or ignorance-based evidence? Part 2 Routine vaccinations: law and ethics

          Clifford Miller BSc, ARCS, Solicitor, Beckenham


          The curious case of the post-Vioxx statin trials

          Prof Michel de Lorgeril, Faculté de Médecine Domaine de la Merci, Université de Grenoble



          All morning speakers




          On refusing doctor’s advice and being accused of Münchausen syndrome by proxy

          Mrs Christina England, mother, Bognor Regis


          Global concerns about HPV vaccines

          Freda Birrell, Secretary, SANEVax Inc, Scotland, and Leslie Carol Botha, Vice-President Public Relations, SANEVax Inc, USA




          Callous disregard

          Dr Andrew Wakefield, USA






          • david llewellyn foster
            August 8, 2011 at 3:53 am

            Sorry, I omitted to close the quote ” after the parenthesis re my posting comments on logosmedia, so it should read …Wakefield.)”

            BSEM: British Society for Ecological Medicine

            My apologies for such a long, protracted posting and correction Jan, but this is such an important issue it seemed necessary – the devil being in the detail ‘n all that.

          • Jan Irvin
            August 8, 2011 at 8:26 am

            Thanks, David!

          • August 24, 2011 at 6:20 am

            thanks again David !

  10. Rupert Tiger
    August 12, 2011 at 11:47 am

    He seems like a fine fellow, but why does it take three generations of doctors, seven years training at the finest university medical school, and thirty years of practice to come to the conclusion that pumping babies with hot mercury harms them?

    • Jan Irvin
      August 12, 2011 at 11:58 am

      Maybe you didn’t hear the interview? He was discussing specifically the MMR vaccine. Thimerosal was a separate issue.

      • Rupert Tiger
        August 13, 2011 at 3:19 am

        Of course I heard the interview. And of course Thimerosal was a separate issue, but you specifically asked about mercury – on at least two occasions. My point still stands. I must say that I am somewhat surprised you have responded in this way.

  11. kroovyandcal
    August 22, 2011 at 4:14 am

    There are so many false logic premises in these “moments of clarity” that it is preposterous. Lee Camp’s attack on free markets involve supposed things that will occur with more free markets (in the future), such as more war, and yet as far as I can see it is governments that institute wars. Government is the antithesis of free markets. Each action of government takes away people’s liberty somewhere and restricts the free market somewhere. The common citizen operating in a free market is unlikely to purchase massive amounts of Cruise missiles for defense of their house or apartment building. Most often, it is government, the intruding organization of people’s freedoms, that purchases such weaponry. I’ll elect to use my freedom and not spend any money donating to the Lee Camp organization.

  12. Greg Bell
    August 23, 2011 at 5:16 am

    The amount of evidence against Dr. Wakefield is disturbing. Yes it’s Wikipedia (written by Some Guy On The Internet), but it’s heavily footnoted.


    Various journals, hospitals, the General Medical Council and even a court have ruled against this guy. It’s either a very grand conspiracy, or he’s a fraud.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 23, 2011 at 8:58 am

      Greg, you of all people I would expect to listen to his interview, read his book, look at the claims against him and the facts from BOTH sides before posting up a god damned Wiki link.

      Do you remember our conversation a few weeks ago about putting grammar first? If you had read above, we already posted the bogus attacks against Dr. Wakefield, so thanks for regurgitating them unnecessarily. Yes, we’re all aware of the false claims against him. But are YOU aware of the evidence filed against Dr. Horton at the Lancet? Did you even check how Rupert Murdock’s son was the one promoting the story against Wakefield via Brian Deer? Or did you skip over the entire discussion and go straight to Wikipedia?

      Very disappointing…

    • elly dozer
      September 27, 2013 at 3:50 pm

      Hold yer horses fellas!

      What was the question?

      I’m certainly interested in what you’ve both found but I can’t follow the link- goose-chase. You understand I’m sure.

      Did I miss something?

  13. Greg Bell
    August 24, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    Professor Irvin, I do not care if you are “disappointed” with me as I do not see myself in a subordinate position to you.

    I am always listening to the interviews BEFORE reading the guests’ book as I usually haven’t heard of the guest or book when the interview comes out. I’ll bet most comments we see here that are made so soon after the interview are also from people who haven’t yet read Dr. Wakefield’s book. I doubt “the ancients” made comment and discussion illegal during the Grammar phase of the Trivium.

    You’re displaying your usual pattern of jumping down someone’s neck because they’ve dared to even vaguely question you or your guests’ position. Listen to how calm Dr. Wakefield was despite what he’s been through, yet one of your supporters posts a resource for the other side, and your reply borders on a personal attack. As usual. I’ve read your comments for years, Jan, and they’re consistently hostile and accusatory. Remember, we’re your listeners, your supporters, and sometimes your checks-and-balances. If you don’t wish to reside alone in your own echo chamber, then you’d best respect us and speak to us as if. God forbid that one of us with only a few (or no) letters after their name actually change your mind about something or point out an error in thinking someday.

    Lastly, my link to Wikipedia was hardly a regurgitation of previous comments, as it contained a large list of the charges and accusations against Wakefield. None of the previous comments did, and the interview only contained a synopsis of each. Did you even bother to read the entry? And before you declare the Wikipedia article as “god damned”, did you read all 99 references? That is the sort of rigor you’re always demanding of your commenters, pre-comment, so I’d hope you did the same.

    I thought the other side should be well represented so that, as the Trivium teaches us, we can gather as many facts as is practical from both sides before making a judgement. We’d heard Dr. Wakefield’s side of the story – the Wikipedia entry represents a compendium of the other.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 24, 2011 at 2:47 pm

      Greg, his entire book goes line by line, detail by detail into each and every one of those charges, sir. That’s the reason I had him on, if you look at the evidence and charges from the official records, and not just Wikipedia, you’ll see he argues very well against them.

      If you read above I was the one who posted the resource from the other side, who was Brian Deer, I posted the very guy who DID the “investigation” against Wakefield above – long before you, and anything and everything on Wikipedia, all of the accusations and attacks, come from Brian Deer – see above. And yes, I do get a bit hostile at times when this is the entire reason for having the guest on, and the audience should be versed in the trivium, and we covered the very issues covered on the Wiki page in the interview – yes only lightly as that’s the point of the book, to read it and get the rest of the details, otherwise the interview would be hours long. Obviously when you posted that link, having read the book and material against him, by the very questions asked in the interview, we knew of the claims and charges against him. Having looked at both sides and the charges against him, I don’t find the charges on Wiki valid – at all – and if you read his book, listen to the Brian Deer link I already posted from the oposing side, you’ll see exactly why I get a little miffed when people only care to post the antagonist junk. If you’d like to prove him wrong, prove his claims in my interview and his book wrong, point by point, rather than posting up the very claims against him on Wiki that we already discussed in the interview.

      As I mentioned previously, you didn’t read the book before you posted that, and therefore you were in fact regurgitating things already discussed and well known. Why do you think his book is called “Callous Disregard” in the very first place? It’s because he’s addressing each of those attacks – with his lawyer. You can read it and the public sources yourself and compare them to Wiki and see who’s lying for yourself. Grammar first before conclusions. This is what I did before even having the guest on the show. Thanks.

      • Greg Bell
        August 25, 2011 at 8:16 pm


        You keep saying “we” knew fully the charges and claims against him. I don’t know who that ‘we’ is. I don’t think it’s we the listeners. I heard them in the interview, but until I saw them all in Wikipedia I didn’t understand the extent of the charges nor the caliber of the detractors (it’s not all Brian Deer or Murdoch sourced).

        I think you’re bristling because you think I came to an incorrect conclusion. But I have not reached a conclusion. I’m still gathering evidence. What I said originally was that the evidence against him was “disturbing” (it is to me) and that it’s either a grand conspiracy (it might be) or he’s a fraud (a stretch considering his earlier successes). That seems like a fair statement and represents my thinking at the time.

        I’m not done looking into this – I was just thinking outloud, mid-investigation. But a warning – with the infinite things to read and watch in a finite life, I’ll be stopping soon, and probably long before you did. We’ve all got different amounts of time to devote to each issue.

        My comments/questions are usually part of an early attempt to ferret out veracity and decide on further, deeper investigation. If I’m not welcome to comment mid-process, or post-earlier-than-you-conclusions, then that’s fine – your show and site. I’m a guest here.

        Thanks for the measured response this time (much appreciated) and as usual, many thanks for the show and all the work.

    • August 24, 2011 at 4:57 pm

      Brian Deer and The GMC, Selective Hearing. BMJ Journalist


      this is the video i posted @ my blog that david llewellyn foster commented on above. you may be interested in checking out independent filmmaker Alan Golding’s expose of Brian Deer ?

  14. Pete Neisman
    December 1, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    The Man behind the MMR Scandal at BMJ

    Dr. Wakefield’s Rebuttal

    CDC Vaccine Fraud 2 Million Dollars
    (this was stolen from the man who was said to prove autism was not linked to vaccines)

    Your Vaccine Makers have been Charged With Fraud for over 20 Years

  15. elly dozer
    September 26, 2013 at 6:18 pm

    The only reason for vaccination (IMO) like in livestock, large groups of people need to keep from getting sick IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO EACH OTHER— due to the POOR quality of PROCESSED FOODS!

    vaccinations of any kind are not needed IF you are properly healthy!
    so that means, no more school, no more cubical job, no more traffic smog—-

    God, just get out of the watersheds you urbanites. OR GET VACCINATED.

    But by now this should make too much sense as too why we ” need” vaccinations…..

    You learn a lot about people from raising sheep!

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