History… The Origins of the U.S. Intelligence Community & Why It Spies on Us.

Tonight, on History So it doesn’t Repeat: We ask the question: Is America safer, now that we’re openly being spied on? We’ll discover how to check our premises, and peer into the origins, form, and function of the intelligence Community. By studying those who spy on us, we’ll uncover the root-causes of the War on Terror; and you will have the facts to help end it. Learning’s the Answer, What’s the Question? It’s all coming up next, on History So It Doesn’t Repeat.

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Jan Irvin’s publications can be found at https://logosmedia.com and both he and Kevin Cole are members of the T&H online research and development community.


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  20 comments for “History… The Origins of the U.S. Intelligence Community & Why It Spies on Us.

  1. Rash Mansoori
    June 23, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    Wondrous work as always! The three of you complement one another so well and make historiography something that is actually interesting to look into. Looking forward to the next episode featuring this triad!

    There was one point in the episode when you were just about to get into how you knew the CIA has you on their radar, but unfortunately Kevin unintentionally cut you off. I was really hoping the episode would somehow find its way back to that topic so you could share with the audience how these alphabet organizations are keeping their eye on you and how you know that they are. I’m really interested in hearing about this!

    Stay safe Jan!


    • Kieran Gilchrist
      June 24, 2013 at 6:53 am

      Couldn’t agree more that the three of you work extremely well with each other and your insights on this particular topic are very welcome to my own research. I would be very interested indeed to hear about your approaches to research as I can often find myself being overwhelmed by so many threads of information/lines of enquiry. I’ll check out your brain maps too.
      Thanks, Kieran.

  2. Keith McAlister
    June 23, 2013 at 9:30 pm


    Hope Richard, Kevin and yourself can in the future do a presentation about doing deep research. Hearing your approaches to a subject matter would be informative and even helpful.

    As to the above video, presentation? My only complaint was it ended to soon! But I also understand. Thanks and nice job to all.


    • Dylan Shelton
      June 24, 2013 at 5:49 am

      Seconding this comment Jan. Richard’s recent production with James Evan Pilato regarding producing your own podcast was great; but without anything to say I can’t use it! Sorta like the Trivium in reverse, I got the “How” (Rhetoric) but no “What” (Grammar) to tell an audience! I think you guys do great work, so learning from the best would really pump up the research abilities of your audience.
      Very informative video, it actually made me want to go back and watch you, Kevin and Rich on past T&H productions. I think I’ll do that now….

  3. Gary Gray
    June 24, 2013 at 9:47 am

    Great show! Jan looked a little out of place without the zoot suit.

    • oats tao
      June 26, 2013 at 6:26 pm

      Yes good topic. I have to really wonder and question , why is Grove in bed with Alex Jonestown? He’s the main thug with method of scare tactics without the Metal pipe and a dash of information with NO solutions. For people that espouse the Trivium, is it only too obvious it’s for profit ?

      • Jan Irvin
        June 26, 2013 at 8:59 pm

        Because then you wouldn’t have anything to make up fallacious statements/questions about! And so therefore, when we do new work, we should never, according to your theory, ever use someone with an audience in the millions to try to reach them…that wouldn’t be using any critical thinking at all to reach millions! Duh. Hey, speaking of the trivium, didn’t “Jonestown” – nice ad hominem – have me on to discuss the trivium? Oh, then that must have been a conspiracy too! Quick, dream something up! Wow, if you’re going to discuss the trivium, maybe you should consider applying it and removing these fallacies from your thinking?! Is the trivium about using fallacious, narrow thinking without gathering data to ask irrelevant questions?

        • RealEyes°°
          June 27, 2013 at 11:08 pm

          A tool is only useful to the one/ones using it.
          Which tool or tools one uses depends on one’s intent.
          A tool of spatial reduction, preservation, or expansion is used along with directional control. (Raising the volume to reach a broader distance in a specific direction is possible.)
          The frequency. Attack, decay, sustain, release.
          Contained within one’s intent, I suppose.
          Oversimplification, without a doubt, but evidence to me at least that the Trivium is working as I try to make sense of something that may at first glance appear contradictory.
          I am very new to the Trivium yet feel certain that it’s been here all along. Where the hell have I been is what’s really scary!
          Confusing tools and toys while unwittingly being used as such.

        • oats tao
          June 29, 2013 at 12:28 am

          Ok . Whoa hold your horsies there Jan , I didn’t expect such an emotional response. But I get a nice picture of things due to the reaction. You can claim I’m dreaming if you wish. Since when is a question a fallacy?
          First I didn’t say ANYTHING about a conspiracy. I was talking about the reality that Alex does not offer solutions to problems, he only rants and repeats the problem while inflating many. This is common knowledge and is clear to see with minor review of his broadcasts. If you feel me using a nickname was an ad hominem, that’s your choice but it’s simply tongue in cheek! You can label my point of view fallacious but that’s where I will simply and kindly disagree! I wasn’t being sarcastic to you like you decided to act with the little ‘Duh’ valley girl talk. Touchy Touchy! Is it a bad thing that I would see aside from ‘reaching millions’ that this is also a great profit motivator? Not once did I say or even suggest Grove was using the same tactics as Alex. It’s you that’s dreaming that was in my context. As you can clearly see I only posed a query about Richard and his association with Info Wars INC.

          • oats tao
            June 29, 2013 at 1:10 am

            To clarify when I talk about profit motivator, I’m referring to the commercialization and hosting in the Infowars store house of the newly authored DVD product that Grove was a part of. I don’t recall you selling anything at Infowars directly Jan but I may be wrong.

            Regardless, I admit you are the wrong person to be discussing this with as you are not Grove so really it’s a non issue as far as I can see. I am pretty surprised how you twisted my words though.

          • Jan Irvin
            June 29, 2013 at 9:25 am

            I entirely fail to see the validity in your statements… circumstantial ad hominem attacks…

            We, as independent, small media producers, shouldn’t have a chance to have our work promoted by big shows, or then we’re somehow corrupt, or what? What is your point? It seems entirely fallacious and void of application of the trivium, bringing up irrelevant nonsense rather than focusing on the work itself. I’m surprised you’re still not grasping such a simple concept that your statements are entirely irrelevant to anything.

            “why is Grove in bed with Alex Jonestown? He’s the main thug with method of scare tactics without the Metal pipe and a dash of information with NO solutions.”

            Scare tactics, Jonestown, guilt by association, etc… and didn’t he have me on about the trivium? Is that not solution based? I entirely fail to see the relevance or validity in your statements. You’re making sweeping generalizations about everything Alex has done. Tongue in cheek if that’s how you feel your need to justify your statements… fine. Maybe focus on the work itself, rather than attacking presenters… isn’t that what the trivium is about? To focus ON THE MESSAGE and not the MESSENGER? It always boggles my mind when people get called out for this behavior and then carry on to justify it… “valley girl talk” an appeal to ridicule. Touchy touchy! No, your statements are just entirely void of critical thought. If you had your own show and struggled as we do to get the word out, you wouldn’t need circumstantial ad hominems and guilt by associations to do your thinking for you. ” thing that I would see aside from ‘reaching millions’ that this is also a great profit motivator?” – yes, it’s called fallacious thinking. You have not brought up a single point in the video that they’re presenting, or their interview together. You are attacking them, and me, as a child might.

            Your context is clear. Attack the messenger, avoid addressing anything in the message, and when your poor thinking is called out, attack that person too. Sad sad sad. What does all of this time wasting nonsense that you posted here have to do with ANYTHING? How has ANYONE benefited from your empty attacks here? How can we possibly learn and grow about anything if you can’t even focus on a single item presented, but waste everyone’s time attacking the messengers? How is it that you can make such sweeping generalizations and “nicknames” – if that’s what you wish to call your ad hominems and appeal to ridicules – but can’t understand that this very person whom you’re attacking presented the trivium. Your conclusions are a befuddled mess.

            As you can see, you posted irrelevant, triviumless attacks and time wasting thoughtlessness and guilt by associations and sweeping generalizations and didn’t provide a single iota that anyone can grow from… sit back and think and lay your emotions and ego aside for a minute…

  4. David Timms
    June 25, 2013 at 8:53 am

    Superb show! Really eye opening info, great stuff guys. Are you planning on doing a show on the P.D.Jackson/Buchenwald “thing” which you briefly touched on in the MKULTRA episode?

  5. Nick Fullman
    June 27, 2013 at 11:57 pm

    Great work.
    I liked very much Jan’s idea (at the end of the episode) to make a few episodes on how to do research. I think it is sorely needed. Please make those episodes and let us see how you do your research. We need more skilled researchers out there.

  6. Peter Durant
    June 29, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    Call me paranoid Jan. However, my spidee sense tells me these two cohorts maybe wolves in sheeps clothing. I hope I am wrong. If ever there were two, more likely Fabian Socialist, LSE “types”(really impeccably dressed and presented), then I miss my guess. Yeah, yeah , this is a visceral thing not a cerebral thing. Your research has an originality, theirs, which is actually better then yours,(as hard to believe as that is) just seems too good to be true. I mean no harm honestly, just a heads up. Again, I hope i am wrong. Strange, the first comment innocently cites an instance where you were cut off at a critical point. Serendipity?? Be wary be well.

    • Jan Irvin
      June 29, 2013 at 7:44 pm

      Please submit your grammar and all evidence. If you have none, then I would suggest not making up and spreading lies about things and people you can’t support. Having someone like Jones promote a new video for you is a called a big break so you can pay the bills.

      If you would also provide examples from the video directly which support your claims, going point by point through the research, rather than attacking the messenger, then we might have something to have an intelligent discussion over. But you’re empty, fallacious, unsupported attacks do nothing to benefit anyone and waste everyone’s time.

      Supply your evidence or you’re banned.

  7. Peter Durant
    June 30, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    Your insistance on this uber, narrow,pedantic, scholarly pseudo-integrity reveals an ugly exclusivity. Forbiding anyone without the proper educational bonafides to participate,essentially lumps you in with the elites you write about. Kinda hypocritical in my view. Fine,I’ll be that black boy lookin’ in through the country club walls where only the select gain admittance. I am dissappointed at your parochial attitude. So be it. If, in your infinite wisdom you deem I have nothing to offer then far be it for me to say otherwise.

    • Jan Irvin
      June 30, 2013 at 12:14 pm

      So in other words, you have zero evidence and you’re just here to spread lies that you can’t support. Do you see that trivium study section to the left there? Use it. We don’t go around making arbitrary claims we can’t support. If you had evidence then you’d simply provide it, rather than going around the internet making up shit about people you can’t support. Strong’s Concordance defines “Satan” as the false accuser, and in a court of law the one who makes the claims is the one required to support them. In logic this is known as the “onus of proof” which you’ve entirely failed, and revealed your agenda by attacking me rather than providing the evidence you have of your false claims, and don’t provide a break down of the video. We’re not interesting in people who can provide nothing to research and no constructive materials and are just here to spread rumors and lies.

      Notice how you have to appeal to more fallacies and speculative lies rather than evidence by attacking me? Your thoughts are a mess of fallacies you use in place of thinking. Make up what ever lies you want. Nothing hypocritical about using the trivium and supporting your own claims – unless you’re completely full of shit. It’s only common sense that if you have no evidence in the first place then you don’t make your false claims! I’m disappointed in your unsupported, unstudied, unfounded accusations and lies that YOU entirely fail to support while YOU are the one who made the claims in the first place.. . are you fucking joking? You have no evidence! I gave you the opportunity to support your claims and YOU failed!

      You HAVE to attack me because I’m the one pointing out your unsubstantiated lies… and rather than recognizing that YOU failed logic and the onus, and YOU are arguing the arbitrary, you’ve got to attack me. So sad. You’re free to chase your own fallacious lies all you wish. You’ve obviously learned nothing that we’ve put out for nearly 4 years. My god…

  8. g a
    July 3, 2013 at 7:26 am

    Have enjoyed the info presented on this site for some time now , however in response to the above posts , there should be a distinction between opinion and outright lying .

    Being incorrect or not supplying adequate evidence to support an opinion should not be confused with conscious fabrication .

    Invoking satan allegories and demanding opinions should be based on court of law standards seems a little extreem – yet it is your web site , Jan and rigorous integrity and substantiated claims maybe a good thing (although it could be perceived as brass) .

    • Peter Durant
      July 6, 2013 at 8:17 am

      thanks ga
      you are a gentle (man/woman) and a scholar.
      I meant no harm. It WAS my humble opinion.
      I do not believe I have the capacity for “conscious fabrication”. I tried to say,I hoped I was incorrect.
      The satan reference was way over the top as you also saw. I feel bad that I upset Jan so much. BUt your defense of me ga, was most appreciated.

  9. Micah C
    July 5, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    Over the past few years I’ve really grown to love watching people attack Jan. One specific was about him using the trivium like a magic voodoo stick or something. Anyway the replies from Jan always seem to sting with objectivity. Always people seem to just ignore his requests and continue to push an assumption or fallacy.

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