45 comments for “History Connected: Research Discussion on MKULTRA, Cybernetics, and Social Control

  1. Adrian Sutton
    April 15, 2013 at 11:56 am

    Hi Kevin, Jan and Richard,

    Thanks for a fascinating discussion its amazing how strongly our reality has been massaged. Now it is clearer why its so distorted and there is so much conflict.

    Lovely podcast thank you!

    • raven eye
      April 16, 2013 at 12:23 pm

      Thank you for this very informative interview. The veil seems to be lifting.
      As I have followed this information as it has been unfolding a few questions seem to be rising to the surface for me.

      Is there an assumption that some of us who have been a part of this expanded awareness through the use of psychedelics and other mind expanding techniques have somehow pushed beyond the intended purpose of this mind control revolution served up by the powers mentioned into a area of personal freedom and awareness?

      The information that Alpert, Leary, Metzner, Kesey, Huxley, Watts, Grof, Mckenna, Shulgin, Sands and others have made available and promoted in my opinion has lead me to exactly this place of understanding I find myself at right now. Which is to say not in a corral but outside of it looking objectively at the human situation from a perspective of observation rather than behind the veil of illusion that has always been there or the Maya of our current human dilemma. I have never felt that what these guys where pushing by tuning in did anything but make me able to free myself and my mind from the very shackles of the programs they seemed to be associated with. I don’t doubt their connections at all, its just hard for me to believe that the 5 or 7 grams in a dark room that Mckenna recommended did anything but open eyes and minds to what is really going on.

      Did the acid I get at the dead shows followed by the pursuit of these same states though the use of peyote, mushrooms, aya, DMT, and meditation put me into some kind of mind control group which was a predetermined “new” corral of the mind orchestrated by the elite?
      Have we just finally arrived in the new pre-built jail of the mind?

      I do find this information fascinating but are we just under a higher level of the spell of control with this understanding or have we actually found a key to let us out of the cave?

      Do we promote the use of these techniques of mind expansion or are they just another way to control us?

      I appreciate all the recent shows on how we’ve been duped by the powers that be.
      How about a new show on the methods and techniques of how to free ourselves and maybe a some discussion on the where to go from here. I understand the freedom that comes from knowledge on the conspiracy to enslave us and our minds. I also have teenagers, friends and family who rely on me to bring them up to speed with these concepts and methods to become free and remain free. They really don’t get to fired up about conspiracy theory’s they want techniques and verifiable results. For those who get it the conspiracy element in the mind control arena is not surprising but for those who are just coming on board it tends to tarnish the possibilities of the potential of these states.

      I appreciate your hard work Jan, you are responsible for a great amount of progress in the personal freedom and awareness arena.

      Raveneye~

  2. Adrian Sutton
    April 17, 2013 at 8:26 am

    Raven Eye,

    Nicely put, I recognize a lot of my own experience and sentiments in your post. I find it hard to think that Mckenna was part of the mind control agenda. Some of his ideas were merely ideas and not true (I refer to his time wave theory). He above all things to me was a poet and despite some misses I think he had many “bulls eye” ideas that today are almost prophetic. I think in life when we look back at history we so often try and draw circles around people of the past and life is fractal and not linear so its not easy to do so.

    I think all you work is so important. I hope we get to see the whole puzzle when complete someday.

    • Jan Irvin
      April 17, 2013 at 8:56 am

      This is what we call wishful thinking… ignoring the evidence that all goes in the other direction while still maintaining that he was just a poet – even though he clearly identifies himself as a humanist, feminist, etc – selling Julian Huxley’s eugenics.

      He actually called himself specifically a “bard”:

      In medieval Gaelic and British culture a bard was a professional poet, employed by a patron, such as a monarch or nobleman, to commemorate the patron’s ancestors and to praise the patron’s own activities.

      Originally a specific class of poet, contrasting with another class known as fili in Ireland and Highland Scotland, the term “bard”, with the decline of living bardic tradition in the modern period, acquired generic meanings of an epic author/singer/narrator, comparable with the terms in other cultures (minstrel, skald, scop, rhapsode, udgatar, griot, ashik) or any poets, especially famous ones.

      You’ll get over the wishfulness after a while of looking at the facts. I came to the realization years ago when I realized that his research on psychedelics was some of the worst out there.

      If you “find it hard to think” it’s because you’re putting your emotions and lack of grammar before the facts and actual grammar. Research and facts always go before our beliefs in something. This is the purpose of the trivium, to learn to study things and allow the conclusions to lead us, rather than our beliefs or fallacies.

      You think that his ideas where just ideas and merely not true, but again, you ignore the origin of such ideas – as the Timewave Zero theory – which we’ve already shown was clearly NOT his idea and came from Jesuit Priest Pierre Tielhard de Chardin… it was called the omega point theory and Teilhard is cited often by guys like Rothschild for his NWO agenda.

      Ideas that we can’t prove are mental viruses, lies, and until we can prove them,taking the onus of proof, we should never send them down steam infecting others. This is exactly what McKenna did: sold lies, played his stuff like the pied piper leading the children to their slaughter. Again, see the trivium.

      Do you just ignore the research on all of this that we’ve already put out to maintain your dreamy idealism? What bulls-eye’s did he have? Sure may be there were some, but when you actually study the work first before your religious convictions, you’ll see that his so-called bull’s eyes were based on a specific agenda. The Stoned-Ape theory based on provably falsified citations – but it sounds good, maybe even like a “bulls-eye” – but it’s a lie, built on more lies. But I wonder how many are really bullseyes if you took the time to actually fact check his claims? Which ones specifically did you fact check? Any?

      Someone with the Stockholm syndrome rarely does…

      What Raveneye, like you, has done, is put the conditioning received as the “place where he needs to be right now” without even considering who that benefits.

      Why do you need to call McKenna’s spin and make believe “prophetic”? This is the same type of idolatry and idol worship that we’ve been revealing. This reveals one fact: that he’s your religious hero, your Jesus, your prophet, and so you seem him as a prophet because you’ve bought the lies. Now it’s all left to “belief” like a good Christian. But all so-called prophets are tricksters. Has there ever been a real prophet? Prove it.

      Rather than fall pray to all of his fallacious spell casting and magic, study the trivium and filter the lies from your own thoughts and you’ll be able to see clearly how he’s manipulating you and that this is no beneficial place to be.

      Read this article: https://logosmedia.com/how-darwin-huxley-and-the-esalen-institute-launched-the-2012-and-psychedelic-revolutions-and-began-one-of-the-largest-mind-control-operations-in-history/

      And watch this video:
      https://logosmedia.com/turning-the-tables-on-the-huxleys-gordon-wasson-terence-mckenna-esalen-psychedelics-2012-mind-control-151/

      “The Mushroom said. […] But since you brought it up. […] I would be very interested in seeing a set of social policies, tax incentives, medical policies, insurance policies, put in place to limit male birth. […]
      This is the way to feminize the human race. […] I’m a feminist. […] AS A HUMANIST I advocate a reduction in male birth.”
      ~ Terence McKenna

      Here’s McKenna in the database, showing the origins of many of his dreamy ideas: http://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain/6FBA86B0-0C57-9FCA-5CF9-D742DA541AAA#-1227

      Research goes before dreaming religious beliefs – no matter how good the cult master has sold them to you.

      • Adrian Sutton
        April 17, 2013 at 9:22 am

        Thanks Jan, I will look at those references, I agree that he was influenced by Huxley, I still don’t see the dots that make him CIA? Are there? Or was he an “unwitting” participant?

        • Adrian Sutton
          April 17, 2013 at 9:35 am

          Yes i get your comment about how emotion kicks in when something challenges our beliefs 😉 But I think what is hard to fault Mckenna on was that he was his promotion of psychedelics of being able to open our minds and see how culture programs us.

          • Jan Irvin
            April 17, 2013 at 3:01 pm

            Adrian, did you bother to read any of the citations, or study the material on mind control? This was their agenda! To get people onto their psychedelic spirituality, THEIR new age religion, THEIR control system. THEY orchistrated this. How do you ignore that this entire thing, as we’ve clearly laid out, was about CONTROL?

            If you do not have the trivium and you’re using psychedelics you’re asking to be controlled. A flock of hippies is about easier than any other to CONTROL. They do not think, they do not verify anything, it’s about positive thinking and NOT acting. This is being sold as a religion, and without critical thinking, as you’re exemplifying here, you’re not seeing how it’s used for control and you sit here and defend your slave master. Talk about Stolkholm syndrom. Would you please study the links and material and citations and the thrivium and THINK about why these people were selling this. I’ve cited the quotes and resources and material and database over and over. You can find it throughout this site, so there is no excuse for your ignoring how this stuff is used for control and insisting on defending the people lying to you and FUCKING you. Do you see clearly?

            Aldous Huxley IS the KEY guy behind MKULTRA. McKenna is selling his EXACT AGENDA. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE TRIVIUM UNDER YOUR BELT – TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR – THEN YOU HAVE NO WAY TO DEFEND YOURSELF AGAINST DRUGS BEING USED FOR CONTROL.

            Pay attention and consider that what you think is religion and spirituality is what your predators see as a way to keep you drugged and stupid while they rip you off and kill you:

            But now psycho-analysis is being combined with hypnosis; and hypnosis has been made easy and indefinitely extensible through the use of barbiturates, which induce a hypnoid and suggestible state in even the most recalcitrant subjects.

            Within the next generation I believe that the world’s rulers will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging and kicking them into obedience.
            ~ Aldous Huxley [emphasis added] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111440/Aldous-Huxley-letter-George-Orwell-1984-sheds-light-different-ideas.html

            The role of drugs in the exercise of political control is also coming under increasing discussion. Control can be through prohibition or supply. The total or even partial prohibition of drugs gives the government considerable leverage for other types of control. An example would be the selective application of drug laws permitting immediate search, or “no knock” entry, against selected components of the population such as members of certain minority groups or political organizations.

            But a government could also supply drugs to help control a population. This method, foreseen by Aldous Huxley in Brave New World (1932), has the governing element employing drugs selectively to manipulate the governed in various ways.

            To a large extent the numerous rural and urban communes, which provide a great freedom for private drug use and where hallucinogens are widely used today, are actually subsidized by our society. Their perpetuation is aided by parental or other family remittances, welfare, and unemployment payments, and benign neglect by the police. In fact, it may be more convenient and perhaps even more economical to keep the growing numbers of chronic drug users (especially of the hallucinogens) fairly isolated and also out of the labor market, with its millions of unemployed. To society, the communards with their hallucinogenic drugs are probably less bothersome-and less expensive-if they are living apart, than if they are engaging in alternative modes of expressing their alienation, such as active, organized, vigorous political protest and dissent. […]
            The hallucinogens presently comprise a moderate but significant portion of the total drug problem in Western society. The foregoing may provide a certain frame of reference against which not only the social but also the clinical problems created by these drugs can be considered.
            ~ Louis Jolyon West, Hallucinations: Behavior, Experience, and Theory. 1975. p. 298 ff.

        • Jan Irvin
          April 17, 2013 at 3:05 pm

          Please read the citations. Do NOT insert words into anyone’s mouth. Did I ever say that he IS CIA? Or did I say specifically that we’re trying to PROVE that he is, and that the CIA has his files CLASSIFIED?

          Where did I say that he WAS CIA?

          Had you bothered to read for a second, you wouldn’t need to waste my time with INVALID questions. Had you READ the links, you’d have seen this and you’d not have wasted another second of my time:

          Right now we can’t prove that McKenna was an agent, but he was most certainly, at least, a willful idiot. However, here is an interesting episode regarding McKenna being chased by Interpol and the FBI – from which no conclusion is ever mentioned. As Henk from Europe emailed me after this original article was published:

          My fucking god…

          We have a lot of very strong evidence, if you clicked the links that you were provided, that would have shown you the DOTS that would provide reason to susspect. If you INGORE every citation you’re provided and use your beliefs and logical fallacies to lead your conclusions for you, rather than the other way around, then you’ll continue to be fooled by your own fallacies and you won’t find any answers for the simple reason that you refuse to study the links already provided to you.

          “I still don’t see the dots that make him CIA? Are there? Or was he an “unwitting” participant?”

          This time try actually clicking the links and following the citations provided previously and then READ what’s actually there, including EVERY citation, and go up and down and READ ALL of the surrounding connections and SEE for yourself.

          http://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain/6FBA86B0-0C57-9FCA-5CF9-D742DA541AAA#-1227

          I’m not interested in tail chasing with someone who won’t study and put their religious convictions aside for a moment and think without their emotional strings attached to everything. Read each citation BEFORE YOU LEAP TO FALSE CONCLUSIONS. READ FIRST, THINK FIRST. It’s simple: INPUT > PROCESSING > OUTPUT. You do NOT EVER put processing before input. Input is ALSO: WHO WHAT WHERE WHEN. If you haven’t asked and answered those questions before you write anything else, then you’re chasing your own tail, and I leave you to it.

      • raven eye
        April 17, 2013 at 12:40 pm

        I’ll disregard the way you combined the two posts into a attack against your work Jan.
        It seems a little defensive to have to launch into all the reasons to discredit all of the characters mentioned in the above posts. Nobody aimed anything at you.

        Some peoples comments don’t need comments to straighten them out. Save your breath. Let them review all you have supplied us and make up their own decisions. You have laid this all out in a very bullet-proof way, so really you shouldn’t have to say much other than just cite a few interviews and let them dig away if they care enough to get to the truth. Most don’t so why waste the hot air. I mean the way you guys do this research it really needs no defense. It is the product of all the evidence. It stands on its own. Making people look dumb only puts the person making the accusations in question. Take the emotion out. Mckenna is a quack, big deal move on. For those of us that really read his books it was obvious. But it tugged at the questions in all of us.

        So how about the basic questions:

        Did the acid I get at the dead shows followed by the pursuit of these same states though the use of peyote, mushrooms, aya, DMT, and meditation put me into some kind of mind control group which was a predetermined “new” corral of the mind orchestrated by the elite?

        Do we promote the use of these techniques of mind expansion or are they just another way to control us?

        Did all of the characters in the above posts just lure a bunch of us into a mind trap?

        I have been at this mind exploration thing for almost 30 years now. I’ve followed your site since 2008, listened to all your shows, some many times. I’ve studied “thanks to you” the trivium. Read many of the books mentioned by guests. It is still just more tidbits of information to make up a larger body of knowledge, not the holy grail of all information. We now know the story behind many of the faces who have tried to exploit this mind control arena thanks to you. I mean isn’t this what Kesey was saying all along. Steal if from the hospital and give it out to friends for the liberation of minds. Or is that a bunch of BS as well?

        Are we ahead of them are just catching up. Are elite using these substances to dominate and run the world. I find that very hard to believe. I don’t think any makers global policy would make the decisions they do after a 5meo-dmt ride or 6 grams of azurescens mixed with syrian rue in the woods by themselves. Do they meet at the Vatican and eat huge amounts of mushrooms and make all the lousy decisions they do? I don’t think so. Hasn’t your personal exploration with these substances been a big factor in making you ask these questions in the first place?

        I guess I would like to see some level headed leadership for the truth in the fact that these substances can lead to the very freedom we claim to know is possible.

        Be an all knowing wise man with no need to get caught in the emotions and mindsets of less aware people. We need it.

        Raveneye~

        • Jan Irvin
          April 17, 2013 at 4:35 pm

          “Are we ahead of them are just catching up. Are elite using these substances to dominate and run the world. I find that very hard to believe. I don’t think any makers global policy would make the decisions they do after a 5meo-dmt ride or 6 grams of azurescens mixed with syrian rue in the woods by themselves. Do they meet at the Vatican and eat huge amounts of mushrooms and make all the lousy decisions they do? I don’t think so. Hasn’t your personal exploration with these substances been a big factor in making you ask these questions in the first place?”

          As the evidence already shows, the heads of the Christian church, the Eleusinian mysteries, all used drugs… for control as well.

          What makes it so hard for you to believe? Did you read the citations I’ve provided? Why not, as you say, just dig through it and find it all? Why do I need to step in here? Why appeal to my authority?

          Some peoples comments don’t need comments to straighten them out. Save your breath. Let them review all you have supplied us and make up their own decisions. You have laid this all out in a very bullet-proof way, so really you shouldn’t have to say much other than just cite a few interviews and let them dig away…

          Have you read how Luce and these others, who worked with the CIA and CFR, etc, would take these substances and make the decisions they did? What makes you say that they wouldn’t? Your belief? I’ve already published evidence that they would and did. Wasson is one, Luce, many, many others. So you’re just guessing. Here’s what Time had to say:

          After Wasson’s article was published, many people sought out mushrooms and the other big hallucinogen of the day, LSD. (In 1958, Time Inc. cofounder Henry Luce and his wife Clare Booth Luce dropped acid with a psychiatrist. Henry Luce conducted an imaginary symphony during his trip, according to Storming Heaven.) The most important person to discover drugs through the Life piece was Timothy Leary himself. Leary had never used drugs, but a friend recommended the article to him, and Leary eventually traveled to Mexico to take mushrooms. Within a few years, he had launched his crusade for America to “turn on, tune in, drop out.” In other words, you can draw a woozy but vivid line from the sedate offices of J.P. Morgan and Time Inc. in the ’50s to Haight-Ashbury in the ’60s to a zillion drug-rehab centers in the ’70s. Long, strange trip indeed.[23]

          Where did the priest and king come from? Did he come from the shaman?

          This was already published in the papers on this website. What made it hard to believe they said it the first time around? What will make you consider these words more seriously this time?

          But now psycho-analysis is being combined with hypnosis; and hypnosis has been made easy and indefinitely extensible through the use of barbiturates, which induce a hypnoid and suggestible state in even the most recalcitrant subjects.

          Within the next generation I believe that the world’s rulers will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging and kicking them into obedience.
          ~ Aldous Huxley [emphasis added] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111440/Aldous-Huxley-letter-George-Orwell-1984-sheds-light-different-ideas.html

          The role of drugs in the exercise of political control is also coming under increasing discussion. Control can be through prohibition or supply. The total or even partial prohibition of drugs gives the government considerable leverage for other types of control. An example would be the selective application of drug laws permitting immediate search, or “no knock” entry, against selected components of the population such as members of certain minority groups or political organizations.

          But a government could also supply drugs to help control a population. This method, foreseen by Aldous Huxley in Brave New World (1932), has the governing element employing drugs selectively to manipulate the governed in various ways.

          To a large extent the numerous rural and urban communes, which provide a great freedom for private drug use and where hallucinogens are widely used today, are actually subsidized by our society. Their perpetuation is aided by parental or other family remittances, welfare, and unemployment payments, and benign neglect by the police. In fact, it may be more convenient and perhaps even more economical to keep the growing numbers of chronic drug users (especially of the hallucinogens) fairly isolated and also out of the labor market, with its millions of unemployed. To society, the communards with their hallucinogenic drugs are probably less bothersome-and less expensive-if they are living apart, than if they are engaging in alternative modes of expressing their alienation, such as active, organized, vigorous political protest and dissent. […]
          The hallucinogens presently comprise a moderate but significant portion of the total drug problem in Western society. The foregoing may provide a certain frame of reference against which not only the social but also the clinical problems created by these drugs can be considered.
          ~ Louis Jolyon West, Hallucinations: Behavior, Experience, and Theory. 1975. p. 298 ff.

          “Are elite using these substances to dominate and run the world. I find that very hard to believe.”

          Just because you’re involved in the very method they use to do it and refuse to see it, even though their own words and guys like West who were involved with MKULTRA explain, and guys like Huxley who headed MKULTRA created the very idea on which it’s all based, doesn’t mean it’s not happening. Your own ignorance of the facts is not a valid argument, neither is an appeal to belief.

          • raven eye
            April 17, 2013 at 7:27 pm

            I get the facts. I don’t doubt the facts. Did I not say I am up to speed on this information and I agree with all of it.

            It just seems like the whole reason I can even pretend to see through the bullshit has had a lot to do with the viewpoint and the information revealed while in these states.

            I my opinion the modification of one’s perspective in relation to nature and reality through ritual use of entheogens develops a fingerprint or awareness over time. This is the very fingerprint which makes the A&S book more like a grok. It fits the fingerprint, makes sense and its all been there in front of us forever. A pattern that is reveled.

            The leaders “whomever they may be” and the direction of this world they are pushing for seem to be devoid of this awareness or fingerprint. It is a dead end street they are taking us down. Which makes me speculate that the folks at the helm are “not” taking cactus tea by themselves in the dessert or exploring 5meo or DMT states. No ego loss, or increased awareness signs anywhere.

            It seems to me that people drugged out with the effects of sugar, TV, pro-sports, wheat, alcohol, consumerism, sex, oil, religion and inflated egos seem to run the show. The state of the worlds affairs seem to reflect exactly these values.

            Wouldn’t at some point when they scheme their schemes to exploit and control while on mushrooms or ayahuasca they would get to the understanding in the end they are just fucking themselves. That seems like a basic trip revelation 101 because you would be able to see the connections pretty easily. The unity concepts are a pretty common trip theme. Why would they if they really are in the know pursue such a dead end street with regard to resources and humanity.

            Seems like there is too many folks to just turn it back to A Brave New World now. That idea may have made sense 40 years ago but the cats out of the bag. On some level its never been completely in the bag or we wouldn’t be discussing this now.

            I guess for you to make any comment that is not based and linked to research-able fact at this point in your career would be basically like falling on your sword. No personal opinions allowed.

            Ideas that should be discussed over a cup of tea I presume, not in this forum.

          • Jan Irvin
            April 17, 2013 at 7:37 pm

            “The state of the worlds affairs seem to reflect exactly these values.”

            The state of world affairs reflects the intentional dumbing down of culture and NWO / Zionist agendas, and manipulated MSM media to fool dupes.

            Obviously you’ve studied nothing of Edward Bernays and propaganda, and how these guys have created this entire thing based on THEIR VALUES, THEIR LEIS, THEIR MANIPULATIONS, THEIR DUMBING DOWN. NOT OURS!

            The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. …We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. …In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons…who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.[30]
            ~ Edward Bernays

            If they’re not taught critical thinking and it’s just a bunch of mystical (as in to mystify) BS, then how is it anything other than fucking control? Who gave these fuckheads the right to tell us this is the way it should be done? Why are you avoiding the fact that it’s directly tied to DUMBING DOWN and EUGENICS? Why do you avoid the issues of control for this:

            “The leaders “whomever they may be” and the direction of this world they are pushing for seem to be devoid of this awareness or fingerprint. It is a dead end street they are taking us down”

            First off, have you verified the claims crammed down your throat by the mainstream media? If the elites are the ones who’ve constantly sold this consumerism, not to mention eugenics, and control of the population against their will for 2000 years, what makes you think they’ve got your interests at heart?

            When they tell you that carbon, the basis of life, is bad, then there’s a serious problem.

            Rather, why not empower everyone with CRITICAL THINKING like the TRIVIUM, rather than dumbing them down and murdering them? Why are you ignoring my other questions?

            Wouldn’t it be better to empower EVERYONE with critical thinking so that we can all derive conslusions rather than having a totalitarian, Zionist system crammed down our throats with lies and force? Why do you think lies and force and ignorance are good, or ok? What’s your own agenda here, other than to keep avoiding my questions?

            Why, again, are you holding all of these contradictions? Is not logic the art of non-contradictory identification? Do you not claim to have studied the trivium? Then why not remove the contradictions and fallacies from YOUR OWN THOUGHTS?

            If you empower EVERYONE, rather than dumbing them down through compulsory education, lying them into mystical, murdering them and their families through eugenics, manipulating them with new age religions that get them to accept the new world order THOUGHTLESSLY, why can’t you see that no one singe authority, especially a government or elite authority has the right to tell the rest of the world what to do and how we should do it? Why can’t you see the lies you’ve been fed and regurgitate are not in your or anyone’s interests but the elites and the Zionists?

          • raven eye
            April 17, 2013 at 8:58 pm

            What gives.

            You sure are making a lot of broad assumptions about my values and awareness level with very little to go on.

            I get it already.

            Christ, you see contradiction everywhere. I’m not attacking you.

            I guess that I really start to question what your agenda is if you can only see all this contradiction in my values and opinions with so little understanding. You seem to have me pigeonholed with so little to go on. Basically you are completely dead wrong with some of your assumptions about me. My proof being the fact that I completely agree and with and have your proof of fact to base some of my opinions on and you still think I’m some sort of Zionist with the brain of a barbie doll.

            You act as if no one else gets it but you. Or is allowed to.

            We’ve been had, no shit, I think you make that point over and over.

            I never once mentioned or even believe that we haven’t and some how you think I can’t see that over and over.

            A lot of emotional energy being flung at me with your comments.
            Facts before emotion right? You are basing assumed knowledge about my position and understanding to form an opinion about me that is completely wrong. You have come to the wrong conclusion with your reasoning.

            I get that you are tired of dealing with all the Mckenna, fruit loop, new age idiots. This seems to be all you see at the moment. I’m losing some respect for you I’m afraid. I used to think we were very much on the same page with much of these things but now I’m not sure what motivates you. Combative as hell.

            Raveneye~

          • Jan Irvin
            April 17, 2013 at 11:23 pm

            My replies are stricktly on your own words!I’m sorry that you don’t see the contradictions in your own statements and conclusions. Go ahead, question away. That’s an ad hominem – to attack me rather than deal with the citations or answer the questions I gave you. I don’t know why you don’t stick to the facts and words written, and when cornered, what do you do? Attack me without presenting any evidence as to why when I cited them stating that they do these things. You stated that “I find it hard to believe”.

            You say that you agree, but then you go on with all of these contradictory statements and questions. You don’t stick to the facts. You allow your contradictions and these fallacies you’re maintaining to prevent you from seeing the larger picture.

            Where did I act as if no one else gets it? When you repeatedly justify and excuse their agenda because they’re selling psychedelics, and you claim to have the trivium, all the while asking for leadingship for the “truth in the fact that these substances can lead to the very freedom” and then say that you agree with me, how’s that not a contradiction? I’m trying to get you to see how they use them for control and you keep ignoring this for what ever reason.

            “I never once mentioned or even believe that we haven’t and some how you think I can’t see that over and over.”

            Um: ““Are elite using these substances to dominate and run the world. I find that very hard to believe.””

            As you should already be aware from studying the trivium, PSYCHEDELICS CAN NOT GIVE US FREEDOM. FREEDOM COMES FROM THINKING AND VERIFYING THINGS, NOT BEING HIGH.

            I even stated: “As the evidence already shows, the heads of the Christian church, the Eleusinian mysteries, all used drugs… for control as well.”

            Now who are you trying to fool with your agenda? Don’t sit here and claim you didn’t say things that you’ve already been quoted as saying, “I find that very hard to believe.”” and then sit here and try to tell me you don’t have contradictions!

            Where is there emotional energy? I stuck to the facts you presented. Can you show me where I used emotion? Or are you just feeling emotionally defenseless and hence why you’re now claiming you didn’t say things you obviously said?
            You can quote your own words and my responses and see if I’ve taken them out of context.

            ” don’t think any makers global policy would make the decisions they do after a 5meo-dmt ride or 6 grams of azurescens mixed with syrian rue in the woods by themselves. Do they meet at the Vatican and eat huge amounts of mushrooms and make all the lousy decisions they do? I don’t think so.”

            I’ve written entire books showing that this type of thing was going on at the upper levels of the church. But you’re refusing to see how they’re used for control. You think that because they’re spiritual to you, that if anyone else takes them, they’re going to be the good guy. That’s a very dangerous PRESUMPTION and it’s not based on the available facts that I’m trying to get you to see. I even pointed out to you, which you refused to answer, where does the priest/king come from if NOT FROM THE SHAMAN? The shaman is the origins of trickery and social control. You can not say that these types would not do such things when it’s the very foundation of it. I also asked you about dark shamanism. You ignored that too because you refused to look at and answer the questions I was asking you and you reacted emotionally instead of just applying the trivium and some critical thinking. Use the trivium. It’s primary use is to filter the fallacies and contradictions FROM YOUR OWN THOUGHTS.

            I’m sorry you’re losing respect, but you’re attacking me for pointing out that you’re using contradictory statements, which you clearly are, and showing you how you’re trying to justify McKenna’s behavior when we’ve already published on this site, that you said people should find on their own, how he was manipulative- AND HOW PSYCHEDELICS CAN NOT FREE YOU ON THEIR OWN. Any hippie can be very easily controlled. If you study the trivium you’ll see this – as the fallacies alone show you how it’s used for control. You may have listened to a few trivium talks, but you’ve not studied it thoroughly, nor learned to remove the fallacies from your own thoughts.

            You sit here and try to justify elite rulers’ lies and manipulations because they used psychedelics to further some agenda, without seeing the larger picture of who it benefits and why. There is a very dark side to psychedelics that you’re ignoring, and they should NOT be used without the trivium- EVER. I’ve pointed out your own words, your own quotes, and I’ve answered you with cited information, and then you say I’m emotionally attacking you. Just because you feel lies falling away doesn’t mean that I’m attacking you. You’re only feeling your religious convictions falling away.

            Don’t empower and justify the criminals and liars. Empower the people. I made this very clear.

            Read my replies again, over and over, and try to understand what I’m saying.

          • raven eye
            April 18, 2013 at 1:00 pm

            Your right my words are not used correctly. I say “believe” when the word should be more like “I have an unverified idea”.

            I misspoke by saying I believe anything. I really just believe in continually questioning everything until beyond a shadow of a doubt the truth arises. That includes your inferences to what is currently going on compared to what has historically gone on with these substances.

            You quote verifiable facts. I agree.

            I just question the idea that this is what is going on right now with the people in power. You really have no proof about what is happening today. You have proven beyond a shadow that it has been the case that the leaders for centuries had used these drugs to control others. It looks like they could be losing control.

            Could there be more to it than what you see with your facts?

            Could there be more than one line of reasoning with regard to the effects these drugs have had on the population?

            Have you been to Peru and done ayahuasca with a shaman? NAC?
            Are these guys just government agents waiting in the Amazon for the folks to show up to mind control them for big brother?

            Have you practiced Zen meditation? Vipassana? Theravada? Yoga? Cabala? Holotropic Breathwork?
            By mentioning these things I am not saying I’m some cushion hugger believer in these things. I’ve just entertained their ideas and experiences with an open mind and made up my own conclusions. Have you?

            On some level all these practices can all be viewed as mind control. On another they can all be viewed as liberation from the very social conditioning you illuminate with your work.

            Somehow you arrived at much of what you know with the use of psychedelics without using the trivium.

            What about in the areas of meditation that seem to illuminate very similar states.

            Fact is fact and the fact is you are not an expert on all roads that lead into the mind. People in power have had control over the avenues into this area for centuries. Now the fact is that “they” have no way of tracking a person who may learn and use many methods to enter their own minds and come to conclusions reaching across cultures to see deeper into the picture of human conciseness and its evolution.

            Is there any validity to these states or do we just stay outside our own minds and duke it out with our words?

            Could the playing field be changing?

            There are a lot of folks who have arrived at most of what you have minus the drug connections on their own and are not just brainwashed Hippies.

            It looks like its all been a big conspiracy forever to maintain control. Now could we be waking up in many different ways with and without the use of drugs to the reality that we’ve all been had?

            The trivium is a tool but not the end all method of true liberation.
            There are just so many people who see the world in the very same way and don’t use the trivium. Many of them have built their own ways of deductive reasoning and have not had to learn it from this specific method. The trivium after all is an organization and reasoning product of the mind. The position of not believing what you see as fact and questioning is up stream from the use of the trivium.

            The destination and arrival at wisdom has many paths leading to it. You your methods are not the only way in.

            R~

        • Thomas Dean Nordlum
          May 8, 2013 at 8:43 am

          I think another tool that anglophones almost always downplay (or are not even aware of at all) to help us to see the big picture is foreign language study. They tend to see language as the same, just another syntax to say the same thing, when really, I believe (in a semi-verifiable way) that it is a huge key to understanding the differences that may be taking place in other parts of the world (instead of putting it through the anglo-filter, which is what is dominating the world now, maternal language or acquired language, like it or not ; as seeing the world through english is, whether you like it or not, a cultural point of view and without having tried to see the world through another linguistic lense, one can rarely be aware of that difference and those perceptive windows it can open to a global viewpoint). I see this every single day in Montréal. C’est beaucoup plus évident en tant que point de vue chez les francophones.

          This has been a facinating read between the two of you, raven and Jan. The trivium surely is an indispensable tool. I only just found out about it some months ago and have a lot of work to do to really use it. Can it be the only one though ? I’m not sure where it originated, as it must be older than Greece.

          Bonne continuation.

      • bernie tornelli
        April 22, 2013 at 2:06 am

        Jan, your work is fascinating. Bought Astrotheology and Shamanism last year and am now listening to recordings of you on the history of the psychedelic movement which is bringing together for me topics I was already interested in without realizing how they’ve been connected all along.
        Back in the early 90s I experienced something while fueled by Hofmann’s 25th that defies physics. Does the word “Farbenfabriken” mean anything to you?
        This is the word I retreved from my trip although the first few letters eluded me until nearly twelve years later while reading about the history of heroin online. This trip occurred way before I became interested in mind control so I’m almost certain that this word did not just somehow surface from my memory.
        During and after the trip I KNEW I was in a factory in Germany that produced dyes and textiles. I had the gut feeling, though, that the room I found myself in that night was a “test-room” where secret experiments were conducted. After the trip I felt an immense sense of cognitive dissonance as my certainties seemed to not connect. I had no idea how dyes, textiles, and secret experiments possibly involving mind control connected. That the dye industry evolved into the pharmaceutical industry was not knowldge I was aware of. I’m sure you could imagine the surprise I felt when while reading about the history of Bayer I learned that they were not always a pharmaceutical manufacturer. Bayer used to be a German dye and textile manufacturer called I.G. Farbenfabriken. It means, literally, “Color Factory”!
        I’ve tried to find pictures of the old factory, (funny, since my sense of smell was off the charts that night and was crucial to my sense of conviction that I was actually in Germany, a place I’ve never physically been) yet to no avail except for an old artistic portrayal of the factory from a bird’s eye view. I read the word over an arched doorway.
        I’ve since then learned of I.G. Farben’s interest in mescaline but haven’t pursued further research until now. One theory of mine is that an experiment involving psychedelics took place some time in the past where the subject travelled through time and space into the future and wound up at my precice coordinates on the night of my own amateur experiment.
        There is more I will share pertaining to this as well as other difficult -to -dismiss experiences that seem to validate such paranormal phenomena as bilocation, remote viewing, psychokinesis, etc. if you’re interested.

        • elly dozer
          April 27, 2013 at 7:22 am

          Mushroom dyes were some of the first used.

      • elly dozer
        April 27, 2013 at 7:01 am

        HEY this might hurt some people ego, but its SO TRUE …

  3. M P
    April 17, 2013 at 11:56 am

    Jan –

    What is your take on hallucinogens now that we’ve made these connections? I see the various mushroom books still for sale in the store.

    I’ll use my situation as an example. I live in New Orleans and I am turning 40 this year. Occasionally when I see bands around town or for Jazzfest I like to take mushrooms. I enjoy the effects (or affects) and it enhances my sensory experience. I went to a Zappa Plays Zappa show at the House Of Blues and had such an amazing and unforgettable time. They played most of Joe’s Garage and by the time they got around to Watermelons in Easter Hay, I was in a state I perceived as bliss.

    Am I just associating these feelings with programmed notions of what these hallucinogenic episodes should feel like, or am I actually experiencing a “great trip”.

    Do you feel the young experimental deadhead you described at the end is deluding himself?

    Also, I have not heard you broach the topic of legality. Perhaps I missed that information. Why would these drugs be determined illegal for public consumption if they were part of these CIA sponsored programs?

    Interested to hear your response, thanks in advance for your time, and thank you for all your great work!

    • Jan Irvin
      April 17, 2013 at 3:38 pm

      Have you read my books? What did I say about Allegro’s work? What is in my books? What is in Allegro’s book? Is it only about psychedelics? Is there a pattern of research to be followed and understood? How did we get to where we are? What do these “various mushrooms books still for sale” say? Obviously you’ve not even read my work in The Holy Mushroom, especially – which has been discussed repeatedly throughout all of these mind control talks – which is what is the foundation that led to this entire discovery!

      What does Allegro’s work on Judeo-Christianity have to do with Wasson and Huxley’s work on mind control? Did we talk about much of this in the last 3 shows on MKULTRA? Did I publish this back in 2008 and do dozens of talks about it? What did we say about this? Why did Wasson attack Allegro? What did we say about this? What do you suppose was Wasson’s reason? What did we say about this?

      We also began to see the patterns when writing A&S. a few key things that we didn’t know in writing A&S: the trivium, Zionism’s foundation in the NWO, and specifically how drugs can be used for control via religion – a question and issue that occurred to me often in considering Christianity’s use of mushrooms – but we didn’t have the answer then, or couldn’t see it right in front of us.

      Does this negate the research in the book relating to astrotheology and shamanism? How so? Which points? All of them? Some of them? Do you have citations? How are they wrong? Being that the CIA and Wasson tried to cover up Allegro’s work, and destroyed his career, how does the investigation into Wasson then destroy Allegro’s work? Is that the fallacy of poisoning the well or guilt by association? Should we allow fallacies to lead our conclusions? Why so?

      There may be spiritual aspects to these things that may be accessed, but, as I’ve already repeated many hundreds of times, psychedelics should NOT be used without the trivium.

      Ask yourself something when you do “entheogens”: While I’m in this state, does it have a potential for someone else to use it against me? Am I incapacitated while on them? Could someone fool or rape or steal from me, or fool me with their own type of “spirituality” which is actually control? If I’ve not undertaken a study in logic, how can I protect myself from predators while on these substances? How would I spot them? What is the onus of proof? What are logical fallacies? How does one use them to spot liars and cheats and hucksters?

      Using logic and critical thinking allows us to ask questions to see if our assumptions about things are valid before we ask someone else’s authority on the matter. If we consider for a moment that what Wasson was doing was studying their historical use for control, a whole other picture comes clear: Where did the priest or king originate, if not from the shaman? Is the shaman not the ultimate trickster? What about dark shamanism? How does the shaman take control of the tribe or group? How did two families manage to take control of all of Greece by using the Eleusinian mysteries, by giving every one in society one trip in their life?

      All you see is that you’re free when you take them, without ever asking yourself to whose advantage.

      • M P
        April 18, 2013 at 11:57 am

        Wow. the “Bobby Knight of Trivium Method” admits a book he wrote and currently peddles on his website was assembled without trivium awareness! Hope you include a disclaimer…perhaps a bookmark?

        Of all the laughable contrivances…

        MAJOR FAIL!!

        Unsolicited advice – people might listen to your ideas if you weren’t such a long-winded, antagonistic dickbag.

        USE YOUR TRIVIUM…USE YOUR TRIVIUM…ARRRRGGGGHHHHH *throws chair*

        • Jan Irvin
          April 18, 2013 at 1:15 pm

          Major fail? How? I asked you questions about the books. You haven’t even answered them. I even told you that the Holy Mushroom book and Allegro’s work is how we were able to make these very discoveries.

          “Obviously you’ve not even read my work in The Holy Mushroom, especially – which has been discussed repeatedly throughout all of these mind control talks – which is what is the foundation that led to this entire discovery!”

          If you read the books that’s obvious and you don’t need to ask me. I pointed out a few blind spots that we had with the first book, as obviously we didn’t get the trivium until Oct. 2009, when the second edition was in January 2009. You can’t talk about something that you don’t have yet. We had tried to figure out the 7 liberal arts for that book ,but until Odening brought that info we didn’t understand it clearly yet. As I asked you, how does that effect the rest of the work? In which way? Which citations? Why won’t you just answer the questions rather than name calling?

          The trivium means asking basic questions first, and not name calling like a little child when you fail to do so. These are questions I gave you…

          In fact, the very last post with Dr. Colin Ross discussed this very point at length… but you ignored the post and then asked your loaded question here. Why not study the information where we’re already discussing this – that’s already provided for you? I also mentioned that.

        • Jan Irvin
          April 18, 2013 at 1:26 pm

          BTW, these quotes have been repeated more than a dozen times through this and other recent shows and posts in the last week – including several times above in this very thread:

          Also, I have not heard you broach the topic of legality. Perhaps I missed that information. Why would these drugs be determined illegal for public consumption if they were part of these CIA sponsored programs?

          ——

          But now psycho-analysis is being combined with hypnosis; and hypnosis has been made easy and indefinitely extensible through the use of barbiturates, which induce a hypnoid and suggestible state in even the most recalcitrant subjects.

          Within the next generation I believe that the world’s rulers will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging and kicking them into obedience.
          ~ Aldous Huxley [emphasis added] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111440/Aldous-Huxley-letter-George-Orwell-1984-sheds-light-different-ideas.html

          —–

          The role of drugs in the exercise of political control is also coming under increasing discussion. Control can be through prohibition or supply. The total or even partial prohibition of drugs gives the government considerable leverage for other types of control. An example would be the selective application of drug laws permitting immediate search, or “no knock” entry, against selected components of the population such as members of certain minority groups or political organizations.

          But a government could also supply drugs to help control a population. This method, foreseen by Aldous Huxley in Brave New World (1932), has the governing element employing drugs selectively to manipulate the governed in various ways.

          To a large extent the numerous rural and urban communes, which provide a great freedom for private drug use and where hallucinogens are widely used today, are actually subsidized by our society. Their perpetuation is aided by parental or other family remittances, welfare, and unemployment payments, and benign neglect by the police. In fact, it may be more convenient and perhaps even more economical to keep the growing numbers of chronic drug users (especially of the hallucinogens) fairly isolated and also out of the labor market, with its millions of unemployed. To society, the communards with their hallucinogenic drugs are probably less bothersome-and less expensive-if they are living apart, than if they are engaging in alternative modes of expressing their alienation, such as active, organized, vigorous political protest and dissent. […]
          The hallucinogens presently comprise a moderate but significant portion of the total drug problem in Western society. The foregoing may provide a certain frame of reference against which not only the social but also the clinical problems created by these drugs can be considered.
          ~ Louis Jolyon West, Hallucinations: Behavior, Experience, and Theory. 1975. p. 298 ff.

        • elly dozer
          April 27, 2013 at 7:33 am

          Dick bag? Well now, we can all be dick bags sometimes can’t we? But not you?

          These aren’t his ideas, friend. You are not participating in the discovery of learning the truth. Challenge the data , not the messenger.

  4. Adrian Sutton
    April 18, 2013 at 4:49 am

    Hi Jan,

    Hi Jan,

    I have not tried to put words in your mouth? I was asking questions to better understand your point of view. Again I too am not trying to attack the information you are providing, what i’m trying to do is use it to make patterns to determine the motivations of the parties involved.

    I think that psychedelics just like firearms can be used offensively or defensively. Not everyone who uses them are predators. And they are an excellent tool to deprogram and reprogram. I think Mckenna despite his faults was not a predator. He recommended their use to liberate us from cultural dogmas. You get upset when people point this out.

    • Jan Irvin
      April 18, 2013 at 9:05 am

      ” I still don’t see the dots that make him CIA? Are there? Or was he an “unwitting” participant?”

      I provided you citations to read. If you did not read them, and you make false statements, a straw man argument, it puts words into our mouths that we never said. The citations were already provided to you, and it’s obvious that you insist on ignoring them and chasing your tail in circles:

      “Right now we can’t prove that McKenna was an agent, but he was most certainly, at least, a willful idiot. However, here is an interesting episode regarding McKenna being chased by Interpol and the FBI – from which no conclusion is ever mentioned….”

      “I was asking questions to better understand your point of view.”

      You don’t need to ask me questions to better understand my point of view. You need to have the intelligence to read the papers and links already provided to you, and study them before you waste my time with nonsense questions that were already answered but you’re too lazy to read them.

      “Not everyone who uses them are predators. And they are an excellent tool to deprogram and reprogram.”

      And unfortunately, McKenna very provably, had you not been too lazy to read or study anything provided you, clearly sold them for eugenics, humanism, feminism and social control. He did not sell them to free anyone, but to mind control them with his and Huxley’s system of control. Did you read the paper or not?

      I get upset when people ignore the fucking evidence and chase their tails, believing in things that aren’t true for the simple reason that’s it’s their religious beliefs and religious heroes in question.

      Did you read the paper and check the citations or not? Which ones were wrong? Do you have the citations to show that they’re wrong?

      I’ve repeatedly shown you, if you weren’t so ignorant, IGNORING EVERY CITATION, that the entheogens were used for CONTROL and not to FREE. You can not free yourself by being HIGH. You free youself by having a systematic method of thinking and verifying information – such as the trivium that you were already provided. Did you study the trivium? What did it say? Why didn’t you study it?

      It’s a lie that drugs can free people. I believed it once too, but I’m not getting upset and you for pointing this out, I’m getting upset at you for not seeing that this is a LIE that was sold to you by guys like McKenna. If you have not studied the trivium and logical fallacies, you’re not free from ANY dogma, and hence why you’re here defending his dogma without even questioning the very premises of the argument you make.

      Any group of hippies is easier than nearly any other group to control. A hippie thinks he’s free just because he’s fucking high. He doesn’t think it requires any other effort, such as reading things BEFORE he determines what they say. For instance, an intelligent person knows that he has to study something and take it in before he can argue the points about it. But the hippie, based on his high and ignorance, repeatedly thinks he knows everything about a subject and will sit there and constantly chase his tail and refuse to actually read anything. The hippie will waste everyone’s time because he thinks he’s already got all the answers: “Get high on mushrooms and we’ll be free from social dogmas” – but what you don’t realize is that this neo-shamanism they’re selling you is a lie, the freedom they’re selling you is a lie. It does not free you. Questioning and having the brains and intelligence to study something before you judge it, that’s what frees you. But not this non-sense you thoughtlessly regurgitate: “Being high will set you free”. No, it won’t. It failed in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and now… it does not work because pillow sitting and thinking positive and going to the teepees and communes is not a method of freedom, but as I already showed you in the quotes, as a method of control.

      See if you can put your unverified regurgitations aside for a second and consider these quotes that were already provided to you in the material that you chose to IGNORE – from IGNORANCE – and hence control because you chose not to be smart enough to read it before you judged it:

      But now psycho-analysis is being combined with hypnosis; and hypnosis has been made easy and indefinitely extensible through the use of barbiturates, which induce a hypnoid and suggestible state in even the most recalcitrant subjects.

      Within the next generation I believe that the world’s rulers will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging and kicking them into obedience.
      ~ Aldous Huxley [emphasis added] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111440/Aldous-Huxley-letter-George-Orwell-1984-sheds-light-different-ideas.html

      The role of drugs in the exercise of political control is also coming under increasing discussion. Control can be through prohibition or supply. The total or even partial prohibition of drugs gives the government considerable leverage for other types of control. An example would be the selective application of drug laws permitting immediate search, or “no knock” entry, against selected components of the population such as members of certain minority groups or political organizations.

      But a government could also supply drugs to help control a population. This method, foreseen by Aldous Huxley in Brave New World (1932), has the governing element employing drugs selectively to manipulate the governed in various ways.

      To a large extent the numerous rural and urban communes, which provide a great freedom for private drug use and where hallucinogens are widely used today, are actually subsidized by our society. Their perpetuation is aided by parental or other family remittances, welfare, and unemployment payments, and benign neglect by the police. In fact, it may be more convenient and perhaps even more economical to keep the growing numbers of chronic drug users (especially of the hallucinogens) fairly isolated and also out of the labor market, with its millions of unemployed. To society, the communards with their hallucinogenic drugs are probably less bothersome-and less expensive-if they are living apart, than if they are engaging in alternative modes of expressing their alienation, such as active, organized, vigorous political protest and dissent. […]
      The hallucinogens presently comprise a moderate but significant portion of the total drug problem in Western society. The foregoing may provide a certain frame of reference against which not only the social but also the clinical problems created by these drugs can be considered.
      ~ Louis Jolyon West, Hallucinations: Behavior, Experience, and Theory. 1975. p. 298 ff.

      If you would actually read anything, you’d see that McKenna was not selling them for liberation, but for eugenics and social control. Did you read the paper and check the ciations or not? If you’re not intelligent enough to study things BEFORE you comment, then don’t waste other people’s time with your unstudied idiocy and your constantly putting your conclusions before your research. Intelligent people know that they have to study things before they leap to false conclusions as I’ve repeatedly pointed out that you’re doing.

      I think Mckenna despite his faults was not a predator. He recommended their use to liberate us from cultural dogmas.

      There is nothing worse than asshole who constantly refuse to study the citations they’re provided and then waste everone’s time by asking questions regarding the material that they were too lazy to read. Pull your head out of your ass just for today and read and study the citations provided before you comment again. I’ve already told you that this behavior of yours is unacceptable. Have the brains and intelligence to read and study the papers first, and then comment, and not before them. Do you comprehend this simple bit of common sense?

      • elly dozer
        April 27, 2013 at 7:37 am

        I can’t believe you like people so much you are willing to challenge them to think.

        Ungrateful Dead!

  5. Adrian Sutton
    April 18, 2013 at 10:13 am

    Hi Jan,

    I have not once refuted your evidence but merely ask if there was any direct evidence implicating McKenna to MKULTRA? I read your links and yes I was aware of most of it when we started. Yes he had BS he him self confesses in one of his videos he says that he made up citations in his books to “dump a baby on the doorstep of science”

    Jan what you seem blind to is any part of McKenna that was good. You are building this cartoon of him “Pied Piper leading kids to slaughter” Ok now do me a favour listen to this clip.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIG25NdOWIs

    • Jan Irvin
      April 18, 2013 at 12:19 pm

      which parts were good? He’s packaged a whole agenda that fits perfectly with Aldous Huxley’s MKULTRA program… did you study the Brain database and its links? What about how all of McKenna’s largest influences were part of this same group? Every liar and bullshitter and bard for the king dresses his lies in usually around 70% or so assumed truth to hide the agenda.

      McKenna’s admitted largest influences:

      Alfred North Whithead: Eugenics, mind control.
      John B.S. Haldane: Eugenics, Marxism, Communism, Darwinism.
      Aldous Huxley: Eugenics, Socialism, Perennialism, Theosophy, Scientology, Swedenborg,
      Joseph Tussman: secret college, US Army Intelligence
      Michael Coe: CIA, Eugenics, created 2012 meme
      Piere Teilhard de Chardin: Jesuit priest – Eugenics, darwinism, created the omega point theory that became the Timewave Zero theory. Suspect in Piltdown Hoax – McKenna creates same in Stoned Ape theory.
      Marshall McLuhan: Media manipulation, mind control.
      Julian Huxely: eugenics, humanism, transhumanism, feminism. Headed British Eugenics Society and UNESCO – ties directly to Agenda 21.

      When we go through McKenna’s talks, this is in fact exactly what he’s selling… regardless if he says he’s exposing such and such and what not. McKenna even denies any conspiracies exist while he’s working with the core group committing the very acts he says don’t exist! You never send false information down stream, not even a baby on the doorstep – as that’s hucksterism, lying, manipulation, sophism – trickery. It’s not honesty or good intentions, it’s lies and manipulation. And when we realize that Feminism is a lie (see my Karen of Girlwritewhat interview) and you see him selling humanism and transhumanism – both developed by Julian Huxley, and you see him selling the CIA’s 2012 meme, and you see him selling these notions to eliminate men and sell hatred and genocide against half the population, which parts of his agenda are good?

      Terence McKenna quotes:

      “The Mushroom said. […] But since you brought it up. […] I would be very interested in seeing a set of social policies, tax incentives, medical policies, insurance policies, put in place to limit male birth. […]
      This is the way to feminize the human race. […] I’m a feminist. […] AS A HUMANIST I advocate a reduction in male birth.”
      ~ Terence McKenna

      Is Terence actually trying to claim that the mushrooms wanted to promote eugenics and tyrannous government policies, taxes, and medical and insurance policies specifically against men, and limiting male birth, the exact antithesis of the hideous communist policies in China? Are we to believe Terence that the mushrooms would promote more hatred and the murder/limiting of men and baby boys? Does a mother not naturally nurture her offspring? As someone else pointed out to me, what greater evil could there be than to put words like this in the mouth of the sacrament – the mushrooms? What care could the mushrooms possibly have in tyrannical, communist government policies that promote hatred against half the population? Notice how Terence says the mushrooms said, but then switches it to “I would be very interested in seeing a set of social policies…”. Nice try, Terence.

      Look at the facts, the influences, the people BEHIND the ideas he sells and see how they fit perfectly into the 4th world agenda:

      http://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain/6FBA86B0-0C57-9FCA-5CF9-D742DA541AAA#-4993

      This is EXACTLY what McKenna’s agenda is, and he admits, in his own words that he’s a humanist, a transhumanist, a feminist, all things developed by Julian Huxley, et al, to promote eugenics against the masses of middle class kids across America.

      • elly dozer
        April 27, 2013 at 7:52 am

        Ok. I’m a reformed hippie and I can tell you from experience that this info is spot on. My personal experience with the Rainbow Family and their Anglo-centric Hopi Book, written by Frank Waters– the Bible of the White American Indian–or Rainbows if you will—MUST be exposed as the writing and publishing of this Bible was financed by Rockefeller Grants.

        I’m looking into it.

        I lived at Rainbow Farm—

        Imo The entire Rainbow Family thing is strait up CULT COMMUNIST CONTROL. ALL those heads, Dennis Leary, Kelsey–even Ingrid Newkirk of PETA—-ALL PROMOTING blind obedience to authority….I got their number. Folks will be surprised to learn of the Jewish/communist movie connection and the Rainbows.

        And why they settled in Eugene,oregon—-the communist center—-LSD was coming out of the University of Oregon chemistry dept….it goes on and on….

        I had to relearn common sence thru the triv method to see it. This will fit nicely into the Brain once I connect Rockefeller, Mormonism, and the Commitie of 300 to this religion.

  6. Adrian Sutton
    April 18, 2013 at 10:43 am

    Jan I find it hard to understand your hostility? Please don’t misinterpret my defence of McKenna’s noble aspects for not wanting to know the truth. Just because life is full of irony we must not try write it out of history. I like many others prefer to look at both sides of the coin this is why I respect your work, however your tone strongly suggestive of one side and ironically is smacks of mind control.

    • Jan Irvin
      April 18, 2013 at 10:46 am

      Adrian, it’s really simple. Answer one question. Did you read and study the citations or did you not?

      Are you capable of answering this question?

      And what smacks of mind control is someone who refuses to study the evidence and goes in circles and sits here and claims he can’t see the connections while refusing over and over to read or study a fucking thing provided him. Rather than attack me, answer the question.

      If there’s anything I can’t stand, it’s people who refuse to study things before they make up their minds about what something says. There is no worse ignorance in the world than this, and you’re repeatedly displaying it here. One must be intelligent enough to study something before he decides the evidence. So did you or did you not study the material? This is the last time I’m asking you. If you fail to answer the question then you’re banned.

    • Jan Irvin
      April 18, 2013 at 10:53 am

      Here are the citations that were provided you. I want a simple yes or no answer:

      Rather than fall pray to all of his fallacious spell casting and magic, study the trivium and filter the lies from your own thoughts and you’ll be able to see clearly how he’s manipulating you and that this is no beneficial place to be.

      Read this article: https://logosmedia.com/how-darwin-huxley-and-the-esalen-institute-launched-the-2012-and-psychedelic-revolutions-and-began-one-of-the-largest-mind-control-operations-in-history/

      And watch this video:
      https://logosmedia.com/turning-the-tables-on-the-huxleys-gordon-wasson-terence-mckenna-esalen-psychedelics-2012-mind-control-151/

      “The Mushroom said. […] But since you brought it up. […] I would be very interested in seeing a set of social policies, tax incentives, medical policies, insurance policies, put in place to limit male birth. […]
      This is the way to feminize the human race. […] I’m a feminist. […] AS A HUMANIST I advocate a reduction in male birth.”
      ~ Terence McKenna

      Here’s McKenna in the database, showing the origins of many of his dreamy ideas: http://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain/6FBA86B0-0C57-9FCA-5CF9-D742DA541AAA#-1227

      Research goes before dreaming religious beliefs – no matter how good the cult master has sold them to you.

  7. Adrian Sutton
    April 18, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    Hi Jan,

    I have read some of the material but I can’t say I have read every citation, link etc. I get that his “time wave theory” was off, that his stoned ape theory is an unproven idea.

    To prove I read some links “

    Concerning Terence McKenna’s “Stoned Apes” by Brian P. Akers
    http://www.realitysandwich.com/terence_mckennas_stoned_apes

    “How it really works
    Even if psilocybin did enhance visual acuity however, or make you more “horny,” such effects could not play a role in selective processes along lines TM argued. Why? Beyond false facts lies a general problem of fallacious reasoning from misconceptions about evolutionary processes. Such misunderstanding is not uncommon, TM and his audience hold no monopoly on it.
    In this light, suppose this attention-grabbing ‘horny’ claim were true. “Horniness” neither produces children, nor success in competition for mates. Just ask males of a sexually dimorphic species like lions, who must fight each other tooth fang and claw in a run-off that ends in only one having breeding privileges, the rest left to console each other, out of luck. They can be as “horny” as they want, it makes no difference whatsoever for chances of their genes passing into the next generation. The predicted winner is the bigger, more powerful male, with thick mane — not “horniest” (that’s irrelevant). For possible adaptive advantage, ‘visual acuity’ enhancement seems less nonsensical, by comparison.”

    He argues stoned apes could not have benefited sexually and you argue shamans used entheogens to gain sexual favours oddly that is complimentary to McKenna’s Idea.
    He also argues “Without a gene that could be selected if adaptive, there’s nothing to inherit from eating fungi; thus no toehold for selection, regardless how many offspring.”
    Science is only now beginning to comprehend the pivotal symbiotic role fungi plays in all ecosystems at every level, from the moment that life became terrestrial to the present. During the two mass extinctions, Life forms that were associated with fungi survived and we have evolved from this powerful influence on our ecosystem. Does that prove the Stone Ape Theory of course not, but I find it gives a fresh perspective on Adam and Eve.
    I think the argument about sight can now be tested and should be done: –
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tjvpk_x-YI&list=LL2SUmeAzu4qXRc5uQe4eZCw
    I am not aware any data on whether this has been done with people when on mushrooms, the dosage may have to be low ….lol

    • Jan Irvin
      April 18, 2013 at 1:44 pm

      You’re relating ounproven ideas, and McKenna’s theory, as you know, was faked, as Brian proves.

      The ecosystem – which has been debunked itself, and mushrooms role in the environment are entirely seperate issues. But anyone who makes the claim must take the onus of proof. If there is no proof, it’s only an idea to be entertained and NOT sent down stream.

      But this is what I asked you to do. Study each citation provided. Why haven’t you? Why then resort to a red herring to take us off topic about ecosystems? The citations were faked, as you quoted McKenna lied and created a baby to put on the doorstep. Must it go any further?

      How does the disproved eco-system (see All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace) relate to an unproven Stoned Ape theory with falsified citations? How do the citations impact this theory?

      What’s science got to do with a BS lie in the first place? Why the need to attack science when the onus falls on Terence?

      It should only take you a couple hours to read all of that, and then you won’t have to spend a lifetime believing in lies and wondering what the connections are.

      Why don’t you answer my other questions and explain the citations above to all of the eugenics and mind control stuff? Why the need to tiptoe around it and create distractions, red herrings, into unproved science?

  8. John Constable
    April 18, 2013 at 11:20 pm

    To Jan/Kevin,

    If a factor, how does the homosexual agenda fit in with social engineering objectives?

    Thankyou,

    John

    • Jan Irvin
      April 19, 2013 at 7:52 am

      1) eugenics – homosexuals don’t reproduce
      2) family core – the backbone of society – without a family there’s often not much to fight the state. Destruction of the family is central.
      3) the promotion of sexual promiscuity, such as bath houses and amal nitrates and the like promotes the spread of disease – which again leads to eugenics.

  9. John Constable
    April 19, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    Thank you for your response, I just required some confirmation that the Harvard trained idealogues were part of the overall web.
    I concur on each point, yet I believe there may be a much grander objective…

    What about, as a result of the corporately driven homosexual/androgenous movement, there could be actioned a mass round-up/cull of all “effeminate” homosexuals ala was perpetrated by the 3rd Reich.

    • elly dozer
      April 27, 2013 at 7:59 am

      Regarding homosexuality, and govt sponsored social engineering-

      This is a case of,

      “Do what I say, don’t do what I do.”

  10. Paul
    April 22, 2013 at 5:19 am

    I’m starting to build an overall picture of things from your work, Jan.

    The interview you did a few months ago with Jose Barrera entitled “Supernatural: Magic and Spelling as Mind Control” shows how the ancient magicians (Magi) were able to create a false sense of authority in the minds of those without knowledge of how it was done, by getting them to externalize their natural feelings of fear, thus, creating a supernatural entity like a demon or devil. Once that entity is created and externalized, the magician then controls it by further defining and developing it since he appears to be (and, literally, is) the authority on it. Without a knowledge of what’s happening combined with a lack of the trivium skills to logically figure out what’s happening, the person being controlled is helpless and at the mercy of the magician. Plus, taking into consideration your research into the holy mushroom which proves the use of mind altering substances throughout modern and ancient history, if the person being controlled by the magician back then were also fucked up on shrooms, well…

    Fast forward to today, with the knowledge that what has been explained above has been happening throughout history and has seen a documented resurgance in the past century (documented exhaustively by Jan et al.), coupled with the elite’s research, experimentation and technology, and we can see how that ties in with the communes and newage movement in recent years.

    A group of hippies separating themselves from a society where they didn’t agree with the dogmatic belief systems of the day, yet they still don’t have the skills of the trivium as tools, they’re ripe for the modern day magicians to steer them into the newage thing. Then all you have to do is leave them alone and let them get high on something and they’re lost to that new dogma. An added benefit for the elites is that when these newagers venture out and mix with regular society who have heightened levels of agitation from all the mainstream media doomporn and a lot of people who have lost faith in their organized religion or government gods can easily be vacuumed under the newage umbrella, thinking they’re free and saved, when in fact it’s just another snare that’s been set for them.

    Sorry for rambling on like this, Jan, but your work and the work of your friends and collegues is astoundingly clear and informative. I only wish I had the time to delve deeper into it. But alas, one has to pay the billz and put food in the belly.

    PS: And with regard to some of the previous commenters – I believe the following quote is appropriate. I’ve seen it interperted a number of different ways, but you know how it applies within the context of this blog:

    “Where ignorance is bliss, ’tis folly to be wise.”
    ~ Thomas Gray, Ode on a Distant Prospect of Eton College (1742)

  11. elly dozer
    April 27, 2013 at 7:12 am

    ATTENTION : Citizens of the US. you are a free and unique snowflake. you can grow up to be anything you want ! your taxes will be used for roads, schools, and law enforcement. someday we will go to Mars. and the counter-culture revolution in the 60s was likely promoted by a Govt Psychological Operation.

    the counter-culture revolution in the 60s was likely promoted by a Govt Psychological Operation.
    the counter-culture revolution in the 60s was likely promoted by a Govt Psychological Operation.
    the counter-culture revolution in the 60s was likely promoted by a Govt Psychological Operation.
    the counter-culture revolution in the 60s was likely promoted by a Govt Psychological Operation.

    Maybe mind control is the only solution to mind control….

  12. Ben Smith
    April 30, 2013 at 4:34 am

    Hi Jan,

    A great interview this one, you guys are really nailing it all down.

    One point I wanted to mention was that James Lovelock is still alive and kicking and has recently come out against the global warming hoax.

Leave a Reply