Frater X interviews Jan Irvin – “The Secret History of Magic Mushrooms” – the story continues.


With this in depth discussion hosted by Frater X we explore the main thrust of Jan Irvin's thesis THE SECRET HISTORY OF MAGIC MUSHROOMS clearly encapsulating the numerous connections between the supposed discoverer of the magic mushroom: R. Gordon Wasson and various intelligence agencies and operatives. Jan also lays the groundwork for the his opinion that the CIA run MK-Ultra mind control program never really ended but in fact became far more pervasive!!! The combined efforts of these commentators proves to be a powerful and informative conversation-enjoy!

Relevant links
www.logosmedia.com

“Magic Mushrooms and the Psychedelic Revolution: Beginning a New History” – or “The Secret History of Magic Mushrooms” by Jan Irvin – #144

Jan's Online Brain database:
Investigating Wasson Brain - MK-ULTRA and the launching the psychedelic and environmental movements

Download the Brain software:
www.thebrain.com

Download Jan's entire Brain database file:
https://logosmedia.com/Wasson/InvestigatingWassonBrain-MK-ULTRA.brainzip(170mb)

Note: For use in the software version only (this version is the best, clearest representation of the database and the easiest to follow and research). This version must be IMPORTED into the Brain software after installation.

www.gordonwasson.com

http://middlechamberfx.wordpress.com/

http://fraterx.blogspot.com/

  58 comments for “Frater X interviews Jan Irvin – “The Secret History of Magic Mushrooms” – the story continues.

  1. paul
    August 12, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    hi jan, I’d like to point out that you may be mixing up two Hubbards, I looked this up when i heard the psychedelic Hubbard mentioned at some psychedelic salon podcast, I immediately thought of L ron too, but this wasnt him

    • Jan Irvin
      August 12, 2012 at 3:38 pm

      Nope. I’m not mixing them up. There’s Al Hubbard and L. Ron Hubbard. I think I was clear between the distinction. Al was key behind popularizing LSD.

  2. mike
    August 12, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    The book “acid Dreams” covers most your material. Wasson is one of the few exceptions.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 12, 2012 at 4:45 pm

      Acid dreams hardly covers any of this. Otherwise it wouldn’t be so shocking for people, nor would I bother publishing it.

  3. sean
    August 12, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    hi jan great show last night

  4. robert42
    August 13, 2012 at 9:00 am

    I’d like to know more about the Teilhard de Chardin and New Age tie-in – who, what, where, when, why and how.

    After I heard Edmund de Rothschild, in PR 61 (http://peacerevolution.podomatic.com/entry/2012-07-26T16_46_49-07_00 at 3:55:30), quoting Teilhard talking, hippy-like, about selfless love, I had an uh-oh moment. When someone like that talks about selfless love, surely he means that you and I must sacrifice ourselves.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 13, 2012 at 1:02 pm

      Here’s a start.

      http://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain/6FBA86B0-0C57-9FCA-5CF9-D742DA541AAA#-4916

      Thanks for mentioning your uh-oh moment. Listening to Rich’s show now. The UNCED video by George Hunt may have mentioned him too. Or maybe that’s what you’re referring and Rich replayed it.

      And I couldn’t agree more… that’s exactly what I’m getting at.

      • Jan Irvin
        August 13, 2012 at 1:05 pm

        6 hours… shit.

        • robert42
          August 13, 2012 at 2:36 pm

          But if you don’t want to listen to the whole thing, it is at the 3:55:30 mark, as I mentioned.

          • Jan Irvin
            August 13, 2012 at 2:37 pm

            As you did. Duh.

  5. August 13, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Hey Jan, It was indeed a Great Show on Saturday night’s Middle Chamber…when you linked names such as Terrence McKenna and Ken Kesey with Alduous Huxley and the Tavistock Institute..and that their work could be an extension of MK-Ultra (a phase II soft mind control option) is WOW! This link between the sacred cow of post industrial shamanism (Mckenna) and New World Order godfathers (like Huxley) will rock the alternative/consciousness research community, of which you are a major part. Will be looking forward to your further work in confirming this! Thank you ….sadly, it all makes sense.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 13, 2012 at 12:54 pm

      Thanks so much, Bob. I really appreciate your thoughtful reply.

  6. Gimp
    August 13, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Hi, Jan!
    Recently I started to listen to your podcasts, and I found you through RedIceRadio.
    Anyway, I am now a huge fan of yours, and your podcast is one my favorite now, not because of those mushroom topics, but because of the way how you cover every topic with the help of The Trivium and deep research.
    One quick question, it would be awesome if you could give me a quick answer… What do you know about Indigo children?
    -Cheers from Latvia

    • Jan Irvin
      August 13, 2012 at 2:06 pm

      I poked around once, but haven’t done enough grammar to come to a real conclusion. Lot’s of new age junk around that.

  7. Malgwyn
    August 14, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Fun couple of netcasts. Sasha Shulgin is a member of Bohemian Grove, and hangs about a bit around Auburn, home of Clark Ashton Smith (also a member, BG used to be more artistic in membership). On the Brain Diagram: Alta Vendita is the Grand Lodge of the Carbonari/Young Italy movement, derivative of Freemasonry>Fendeurs (woodland themed masonry). That point about Essenes as proto Freemasonry is absurd. Back when it was forbidden to write anything down the Allen Publishing company published a cypher book that replaced the word “Mason” with “Essene”. So the Idea was rattled about since the late 1800’s, and some fringe elements did run with it. Other than quaint builder’s customs from the Keltic twilight things don’t get very interesting until the Platonic Academy via Cosmino Medici after listening to Gemistos Plethon, and not much of that until Thomas Taylor’s translations. I wish the Freemasons actually taught the Trivium, instead of merely pointing to it in passing during the staircase lecture of the second degree.

  8. DJB
    August 14, 2012 at 1:15 am

    Jan, Ive been researching George Hunt since you recommended it. The guy is an EXTREMELY fundamentalist christian that is viciously attacking anything other than Christianity. Most of his points are ridiculous and are based on nothing but conjecture. I DO believe that certain aspects of the New Age community are being promoted for distraction purposes, and for indoctrination into an agenda 21 esque future environmentalist scenario. That is something I have believed for a long time. I do not however think that the entire movement is geared around that purpose.

    The movement itself is so dynamic that it would be like finding a few bad apples in the conspiracy community and thereby denying that whole community. There are ALOT of different perspectives, most of which disagree with each other on a variety of points. I personally enjoy many New Age authors and books and at the same time can’t stand others. That includes “the secret” and all other “do nothing and think positive” fluff that’s out there. MANY New Age authors support my perspective on that and promote positive constructive activism and critical thinking.

    Many of the principles discussed in the New Age books can be found in occult and metaphysical texts going back thousands of years, as well as a variety of indigenous and eastern religions. People have been talking about vibration, energy, reincarnation, psychic ability, “angels” and “guides”, crystals, etc for thousands of years. From Hermetica to Native Americans, from the Druids to the Kabbalists. It’s nothing new. Christianity by comparison is MUCH newer.

    I also do not think that eastern religions or the whole subject of UFO’s is “bad” “disinformation” or was made up at some UN conference in the 80s. That is completely untrue. People have been documenting UFO’s for thousands of years, and the UFO literature is voluminous in its wide variety of evidence and proof. As far as eastern religions, Blavatsky and others were talking about this in the west FAR before the modern “new age” movement.

    Basically what I’m saying is that it is a gross oversimplification to tie the ENTIRE new age, UFO, eastern religions etc movements to an illuminati plot to enslave people. Certainly I believe that particular aspects of those movements are absolutely being hijacked, funded and used by these people for nefarious purposes. Much like the feminist movement was. Although the female liberation movement existed long before the 70s and was much more down to earth. We can not throw everything associated with these things under the bus. These people infiltrate and use everything.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 14, 2012 at 1:36 am

      It seems you’ve created a number of straw man arguments here. On UFOs, see my interviews with Prof. John Rush.

      I think you’re wrong though, as controlled opposition is extremely important, and when you consider my interview with Dr. Barbara Erhenrich, and the other many dozens of interviews I’ve done on these subjects, I think you’re wrong. But it’s not to say the entire movement. It’s just a lot of people believing in things that they’ve never considered the other side of – ie they’re willful idiots.

      You’re confusing metaphysical, a misuse of the word really, and these things being used as mind control. Study Mark Passio for instance – http://www.whatonearthishappening.com I hope you actually spent some time to read through the citations, connections, conferences, and agendas – et al, and NOT just in Hunt’s work, which is NOT the only one cited, but also the other 6000 citations provided. If you narrowly focused on one, and missed the many hundreds of others provided, well, I can see why you can’t see the connections in the research, as you’re effectively using a straw man argument.

      Calling someone a fundamentalist Christian doesn’t make their research on UNCED, etc, wrong. In fact, he plays Rothschild’s audio saying it himself, and is reading from Strong. Try not to kill the messenger or using ad hominem attacks. Don’t use fallacies, and use the trivium and take what’s of value and toss what isn’t. Why do you need to name call?

      Basically what you’re saying is a gross over simplification of my research, citations and what they show because you’ve put your beliefs and emotions ahead of spending the time to dig through the available documentation. And did you even read my piece on Wasson? Attacking people with ad hominem remarks like “you’re a Christian” does nothing for your research skills. Go point by point through the documentation and see how they connect and relate. In my interview with Hunt he pulled his Christian stuff too, and I called him out then too. So you’re preaching to the choir. But again, his research and documents stand on their own – especially in context with the rest.

      The onus of proof falls on anyone making the UFO claims. I’ve not seen any that stand up to critical thinking. I’m not saying it’s not possible, just that I haven’t seen any. What you’re confusing is the idea that Dave Emory covered years ago in his research that the UFO movement, which is very much the positive thinking movement on many levels with it’s Pleiades, positive thinking, etc, is very much involved. In fact i read something on Whitney Streiber last week regarding this very fact and his own ties to I think it was the SRI institute or something, but for sure Richard Hoagland was there. I’ll have to dig up the article again.

      Now, go out and buy all of Julian Huxley’s books and tell me that his own brother wasn’t selling his eugenics plan through these movements, and study the rest of the information, the citations in the Wasson paper, etc.

      If you’re going to say that I’ve taken something out of context, please cite specifically what I said, what citation I was referring to and exactly how it’s taken out of context with the available research provided, including any you provide – point by point – as I have laid out – so it should be easy for you. Since you’re making the claim that I’ve taken something out of context, the onus of proof falls on you to show exactly where and how and which citations are wrong. But that requires you study them first – more than one.

      • DJB
        August 14, 2012 at 6:00 pm

        Listen, I don’t have time to “cite” everything that I’m going to say but can assure you that the following comes from years worth of extremely intensive research.

        You are putting your grammar before your logic Jan. You have absolutely no idea what I have read or looked at. I have looked at nearly every single attack by every single attacker of the New Age movement and considered carefully what they have said. I have even converted to Christianity a few times as a result of that.

        I am NOT saying that George Hunt does not have good points. I am saying that if you watch his OTHER videos he is attacking everyone who is NOT christian. That proves that there is a BIAS in his material. I did not issue an “ad homeniem attack” or say “your a christian”. I was implying that there was a HEAVY bias in his material, and there is.

        They ARE using the New Age movement to sell certain agendas. Most people who are new age writers have NOTHING to do with the illumiati. There are also many New Age researchers and authors who ABHOR “the secret” and similar subjects and instead promote positive critical thinking and constructive activism. You wouldn’t know that though because you seem to have never really looked.

        The fact is that the ideas in the modern New Age movement have existed for thousands of years. New Age and metaphysics are almost synonymous. If you read Manly P Halls book from the 1930s you will see almost identical information to the modern New Age movement. You can look at hermetics and see the same. The Kybalion and the Kabbalah as well. You can also look at nearly every single indigenous tradition as well. They are all talking about energy, vibration, reincarnation, “guides”, angels, thoughts effecting reality, meditation, astral travel, reincarnation and everything else. That is a fact. You cannot deny that. I did notice that it was absent from your reply though.

        The New Age movement and the UFO movement were not started in a conference in the 1980s. They were started by people that had nothing to do with the illuminati like Edgar Cayce and Jane Roberts.

        I have in fact studied Mark Passio and probably most of the people you don’t think I have studied. I agree with him on several points and disagree with others. He was at a lower level satanic coven, they didn’t tell him everything and it’s safe to assume he was also fed disinformation. He does have good things to say though.

        The idea that the entire UFO movement does “not use critical thinking” is completely and utterly ridiculous. Let me ask you Jan, how many UFO books have you read? 1 or 2, maybe 5? There are thousands and thousands by hundreds of researchers. How about the thousand and thousands of FOIA documents that support it, or the hundreds and hundreds of vetted government and military whislteblowers?
        How about the ancient Hindu texts describing the gods flying around on circular metallic craft with portholes and a dome, which they say run on an mercury based free energy system (Vimana, you can find it in Hindu vedic texts at your local library)? How about the thousands and thousands of similar stories? How about the heavy suppression, murder, bribery, and blackmail the secret government has been involved in with covering up researchers? You may have interviewed some anti ufo researchers, but how many pro UFO people have you interviewed?

        I do agree that aspects of the UFO movement are being used to subdue people with happy stories of “the pleadians” and similar things. That does NOT discredit the entire movement, and it certainly is not “proof”. As I said in my original post, these movements are so dynamic and there are so many different diverging perspectives that disagree with each other that discrediting one aspect hardly discredits the whole movement. Nobody can agree with each other on anything in the UFO movement. The same goes for the conspiracy and New Age movement. One aspect, or a few researchers, do not reflect the whole movement by any stretch of the imagination.

        Can you imagine if I “debunked” some conspiracy researcher with ties to the CIA and then said the entire conspiracy movement was a creation of the CIA? What if I found multiple researchers with ties to the CIA and used that to support my theory?

        Pointing out that someone was “involved with SRI” does not then discredit their whole material, and it certainly does not discredit the entire subject of UFO’s. THAT is simplistic.

        If I wanted to I could go through the entire astrotheology movement and find people with “connections” to various institutions and people. I could then use that as “proof” that the entire movement is bunk.

        • Jan Irvin
          August 15, 2012 at 7:30 am

          Thanks for your opinions, but without citations they’re as valuable as dirt. The onus of proof is always on the person making the claim. If you’ve done years of research, you should be able to back your shit like people here, and not appeal to your years of research.

          You’ve created one heck of a straw man here, taking about everything I said out of context of what you think I said and you’ve attacked that.

          Try going through the trivium and quadrivium material and apply it here.

          The onus of proof is on you UFO people to prove your shit. It’s not on me.

          Metaphisics comes from Aritotle’s teaching of logic and ontology, and has nothing to due with the new age movement, except how they’ve taken the ideas and themes and twisted them to be all about the New Age, as you exemplify here.

          The new age movement has not existed for thousands of years. There were mystery schools and the like, but to say that the New Age movement existed for thousands of years is to convolute history, religion, and the mystery schools into your beliefs that really came around in the 1800s. See Mitch Horowtiz – Occult America -where he lays out all of these foundations. You can also see my interview with him. You see, unlike you, I can actually cite research and sources on these things.

          Where did I say the UFOs started in the 80s? Again, nice straw man. Try not to confuse what’s actually being said with what you make up in your head. The UFOs being tied to the New Age movement, as research and citations show, came out of Esalen.

          It doesn’t matter how many UFO books I’ve read. Again, the onus of proof is on whom ever makes the claim. You’re making the claim here, for instance, and yet you can’t cite one valid, fallacy free story, about the UFOs. I don’t deny that flying objects exist. In fact, living near Edward’s Airforce Base, I’ve seen some. I just recognize that they come from the base and not Aliens from the Pleadies, etc. The books I have read on UFOs and the like, from the Disclosure project onward, were so full of fallacious arguments, like you here, that eventually most people picked up on the fact that those guys were frauds, or at least disinformationists.

          But again, as you’re making the claims of these things, the onus of proof falls on you to prove that UFOs exist, and provide citations. To not do so is arguing the arbitrary and everything you say is dismissed. So cite or don’t waist our time with your fallacious, uncited gobbledygook.

          The fact that no one can agree with each other in the UFO movement says a lot – as this is the result of not using critical thinking. People who use critical thinking are able to GET ON THE SAME PAGE and decide the validity of research point by point, where as the opposite of critical thinking is, as you’ve pointed out, a bunch of people who can’t agree with anything.

          Hoagland’s connects to SRI are very serious and questionable. I didn’t try to poison the well with Hoagland, I pointed out that he’s from there, as is much of this same op. You can call it a coincidence, but try studying the logical fallacies and the trivium here and see what else you come up with.

          Again, if you can’t cite your sources and back your claims, your arguments are shit.

          • DJB
            August 15, 2012 at 7:59 pm

            Ok this will be my last reply to you.

            First, the books you have read on UFO’s do matter as it shows you are putting your grammar in front of your logic by making these accusations. Something you LOVE to accuse others of doing.

            Second my challenge to you is to do what you seem to be demanding of me. Please cut out all of the conjecture and accusations of “straw man arguments” and do some of your own research.

            Please read through every major publication and book on UFO’s and ET’s and debunk every single “citation”. Please then “cite” your own sources to back up the claim.

            Some great books include: UFOs and the National Security State: An Unclassified History (voluminously referenced)

            Need to Know: UFOs, the Military, and Intelligence

            Technology of the Gods: The Incredible Sciences of the Ancients

            Our Cosmic Ancestors

            Our Ancestors Came from Outer Space

            All of Joesph Farrell work, all of David Hatcher Childress and others.

            Please “cite” all of your references.

            Please also go through the millions of Freedom of Information Act and government documents from countries around the world and debunk every single one of them.

            Please “cite” all your own sources to back up your claims.

            After that there is more work to do. Thousands of Contactee and Abductee cases (many of which have done things like accurately predict the future and been documented), Whistleblower testimony from vetted whistle blowers (testimony stands up in a court of law unless the person is shown to be compromised), and so much more.

            I’m sorry you haven’t taken the time to do any research. The “burden of proof” is actually on you. Before you start making accusations like this you better be educated and ready to “cite” your sources. Interviewing a few anti UFO people and mixing that with your own opinions doesn’t count.

            Jan, you have thoroughly proven that Wasson and others were involved in creating the modern hippie movement. You have done fantastic research on that regard.

            You have not in fact proven that the New Age movement or the UFO movement were created by them.

            You have two main sources to back up your accusation. Eselan and George Hunt.

            Eselan was probably created by the cabal. However most people know eselan as a nice place to go to talk about spirituality. Most of the people involved have no idea what it is for. It has seen hundreds of thousands of visitors over the years and is world famous. Many people come from all over the world to talk there. Most are not aware of the illuminati.

            George Hunt was witness to a meeting in the 80s. That’s about it. He is not a high level insider coming out to tell his story. All that proves is that the illuminati devised a way to hijack the new age movement to promote Agenda 21. That is it. Esalen is probably part of that.

            All the rest is basically your own opinion and George Hunt’s bias.

            Your going to have to provide ALOT more evidence to debunk the New Age and UFO community, and believe me I have seen it all.

            What I said was that the PRINCIPLES that make up the new age community (energy, vibration, angels, guides, crystals, vibration, reincarnation, mind effecting reality, etc) have existed for thousands of years. That is a fact.

            Also Hoagland did not work at SRI. That is a total lie that exists only in the article you read. That article came from a book called “The Stargate Conspiracy” which is a notorious attack piece against many people in the alternative community. The premise of that book was that the world was going to end in the year 2000. You can look all around and you will not find any validation. He was a consultant to NASA at that time.

            It is surprising to me that someone who is making accusations of “not using critical thinking” and demanding that I “cite my sources” did not even take the time to validate that.

            He worked with one SRI scientist on his first book. Thats it. The fact is there are many good scientists at SRI and not all of them are paid CIA shills. Most people (including Hoagland) were not aware SRI had anything to do with the CIA in 1983.

            Working with one SRI scientist your entire career is not evidence that would stand up in a court of law to convict someone. Your going to need to provide alot more including:

            Going through all of his material and debunking every single “citation” and “citing” your own sources.

            I doubt you have ever read any of his books. Hence you are putting your grammar before your logic Jan.

          • DJB
            August 15, 2012 at 8:11 pm

            Also, nobody in the conspiracy community can agree on anything either. Where have you been?

          • Jan Irvin
            August 15, 2012 at 8:15 pm

            Please go see the trivium study section.

            I was hoping you’d provide specific citations, quotes or something, not just books and an emotional rant.

            You’re free to go through each of the citations in the database one by one and check them. If you find any errors, just point them out and provide a citation to the correction.

            Also, the only reason why people don’t agree on something is because they don’t do all of the grammar first before they judge something – you have to get on the same page, like you here. I’ve put up all of my research and you can go through each point, show how they’re wrong or what ever. I think you’ll find plenty of primary evidence in there as well.

            I’m not making the claims about UFOs, so there’s no need for me to go out and research all of it as I’m not the one trying to prove they exist, but so far, no one has provided me anything convincing that wasn’t filled with fallacies and the like.

            Here Peter Levenda lays out much of how the UFO community was spun:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV6MVsmi6z8

            Two of the key players were Fred Crisman and Guy Banister. They were somehow tied in with the council of 9 – again out of Esalen.

          • DJB
            August 15, 2012 at 10:18 pm

            Ive seen that video on Peter Levenda. It is wonderful.

            You are making claims on UFO’s by saying they are all being promoted by the cabal in your latest radio shows. You are doing so ignorantly.

            All of the references citations etc are in those books. That is why I posted them. If you are really committed you would debunk them all. Posting them all here would probably crash your storage space, and would be very time consuming.

            The council of nine never appeared in publication except for a little bit in the book URI. It wasn’t a public thing. The insiders took it very seriously. They believe this stuff.

            This is my last response. I hope we can agree to disagree. Thanks for all your great research.

  9. robert42
    August 14, 2012 at 5:51 am

    The following is in no way a deprecation of Jan’s research, just me scratching an intellectual itch..

    Here’s a question: where does one draw a line in establishing meaningful connections between people? One degree of association, two, or more?

    This morning I started wondering about Stewart Brand (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stewart_Brand), who was closely associated with Ken Kesey, and is still a significant social organizer. The Last Whole Catalog is one of my two or three favorite books. Now I’m wondering what his parents did for a living (no really, I need to put my mind to rest that his mom and dad weren’t CIA/OSS agents). I could not find a reference to his parents names. I see from his wiki bio that he attended an elite secndary school (Phillips Exeter Academy), was in the US military, and participated in a scientific study of LSD.

    None of which may be particularly noteworthy, because surely those traits apply to thousands of ordinary people.

    Come to think of it, I recall that the dedication of The Last Whole Earth Catalog is to his parents, whom he mentions by name, so I’ll have to dig it out of storage

  10. robert42
    August 14, 2012 at 6:44 am

    Speaking of Christian fundamentalists doing good research, James Perloff’s revisionist round-up of twentieth century history (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr9pdOFCO2c) seems impeccable to me and I’ve been forwarding it to conspiracy-skeptics that I know. Later I found out that he’s a creationist (lol), but it doesn’t detract from his 20th c historical analysis.

  11. Caelidh
    August 14, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    Hey Jan
    Thanks, I missed your link on the Brain software, very cool. Thanks. That is a wonderful tool and I will check out what you have up there.

    • Jan Irvin
      August 14, 2012 at 2:38 pm

      We discussed this throughout the interview. You did hear it, right?

      Anyway, please stop attacking me before you’ve done your research, and even read the introductions to the shows, and studied the links, and listened to what was said. Because always having to answer to you before you’ve bothered with the research is very taxing on my energy and time. Thanks. 🙂

      • Caelidh
        August 15, 2012 at 5:40 pm

        I am not attacking you Jan, Apparently some miscommunication was had regarding which podcast I was referring to. Apologies.

        You don’t have to respond to everything I say . I understand and I tend to listen to the podcast while at work and have very limited time to go through every single link and research every single piece of evidence.

  12. Roddy Piper
    August 14, 2012 at 8:04 pm

    Hey, Jan

    You are an incredible researcher, interviewer, and publisher. Your work is continually grounding me and has risen the bar for what I expect from myself and from others in the pursuit of the truth. This was an awesome interview and I’m glad you seem to be enjoying yourself while you share your research.

    I am very curious if you been in communication with Lorenzo from the Psychedelic Salon(http://www.matrixmasters.net/salon)..for obvious reasons if you are familiar with the great number of lectures found there.

    Just as you mentioned you were contemplating whether or not they found out the dead sea scrolls were still “active” you went to a break! Could you link me, tell me if it’s anywhere in the brain, or refer me to a podcast where I could delve into this further?

    And lastly, referring to the previous paragraph, could this be correlated to the westernization of Muslims/Islam? It is my understanding they have “opened the flood gates” in a sense concerning immigration policy. This has also been mentioned by Jay Weidner a few times during his interviews. Any thoughts on his work as well concerning Stanley Kubrick, the moon landings, and interpretations on the Nag Amati texts?

  13. Caelidh
    August 15, 2012 at 5:38 pm

    I just finished listening to this episode this evening.

    Couple of things.

    Just because there were groups of people that happened to coexist and go to the same schools and institutes doesn’t necessarily mean they were sitting around consciously attempting to formulate plots to control humanity. Be wary of the logical fallacy of association. Granted, ideas get bandied about and become popular paradigms but it sometimes sounds as if you are attempting to link all these people together (such as Terrance McKenna being a part of the “conspiracy” because he was affiliated with Essalon. etc).

    I also find that there is some syncromysticism that can be at play in some of these ironic events. Such as Margaret Mead’s quote “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” That quote has been taken by progressives generally as a rallying cry and you have then stated that she was REALLY referring to the group at the Macy’s conferences. Ironic, that something that may have been intended for one group ends up being powerful for the other side.

    I hope that folks can see how information doesn’t have to be tainted just because so and so said it or that it was affiliated with one of the various groups by the elite. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Don’t commit that logical fallacy.

    There is a lot of good information, and as you pointed out regarding the Ayn Rand INtitute that not everything that came out of that organization was bad. That can be said for probably Essalon, and even the 1960’s Rock scene. Don’t throw it all out. Take what is meaningful and correct and leave the rest.

    • Caelidh
      August 15, 2012 at 7:15 pm

      Actually, I just finished reading the comment from DJB and some of what they say is what I have been trying to say.

      I do value your work and research Jan, but I do sometimes find that you fall in to the trap of logical fallacies yourself.

      Just as you mentioned that attacking someone as a Fundamentalist Christian in an attempt to perhaps discredit his work. Yes, an ad hominium attack, yet it appears that you are implying with a very broad brush that the entire 60’s movement was somehow “controlled oppposition” as well as implying that the entire New Age movement is part of an agenda.

      i think that DJB has a point regarding that there is a lot of people who are connected to the “new age” or occult movements that have quality information and knowledge and they are not trying to just trap people into some “Positive thinking” movement.

      Trust me, I LOVED your show with Erenreich, I felt very validated as I came from a community that was generally very “positive thinking” oriented and my now former mentor was a fan of The Secret and we really butted heads on that whole way of thinking. Just made me cringe. I even called her on something that Byron Katie had stated regarding solving world problems (essentially putting aside ones troubles with the world). While Byron Katie (“How do you know it is true) practice can be very helpful (it has roots with Zen) I don’t jive on EVERYTHING she infers by her practice. But I can take the positive teachings and leave the rest of the BS . Just as you implied with Ayn Rand. I don’t believe that Byron Katie is somehow trying to control people. Although, I will agree that movies like THE SECRET are total shams.

      I have mentioned earlier as well I think about my issues I have with your thoughts on the Environmental movement. It seems as though you are implying that the entire movement was STARTED by the elites as a way to control folks. However, I would see it as it being rather INFILTRATED (as controlled opposition). there is a LOT of genuine and intelligent and caring “tree huggers” out there that seem to be demonized as somehow being tools of a NWO agenda.

      I think the entire environmental movement is conveniently being lumped together with questionable organizations OR organizations that may have been “taken over” . I, for one, as an “environmentalist” have never supported Carbon Credits or Carbon Caps. I can totally see how that is a serious scam by the banks and elites. “Global Warming…. climate change… honestly, jury is still out. We have definitely had a seriously hot summer” I am not saying that it is is all about CO2 emissions but I wouldn’t go so far to say the entire thing is one huge hoax and we are just imagining weather issues. SOMETHING is going on and perhaps it is all being created by Chemtrails or something.

      Sorry to belabor a point but I just get concerned that leaning too far in any direction is bad. We do have to use critical thinking and I do promote the Trivium and understanding logical fallacies wherever I go.

      Thanks for your patience. I am a student and still learning.

      btw.. Mark Passio’s podcast IS an incredible wealth of info and basic understanding on what the problems are.. Your podcast and his are the 2 main pod-casts I listen to regularly.

      • Jan Irvin
        August 15, 2012 at 7:32 pm

        I Caelidh, I’m really tired of going in circles with you. Nearly every point in there is connected to data and research and is explained in there why each on is connected. Go through and read the damn stuff yourself. Don’t just LOOK at it, READ it. Go your GD grammar. I’m really just not going to respond to you anymore because every conversation we have is based on this.

        If the connection there it is explained in 1, 2 and 3 degrees seperation with primary, secondary and third hand information. Nearly all of which is stated there. No place am I making broad brushed generalizations that aren’t supported by the notes in each one. If there are so that aren’t explained, often a quick google search will explain the connection.

        Again, before you say anything was infiltrated, do your GD grammar – for once!

  14. Caelidh
    August 15, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    One thing I was thinking about since you brought up about how a large portion of the 60’s rock scene came from Military Intelligence families (thus implying that the 60’s rock scene was a intentional plot to enact mind-control or something) I was wondering then if the group THE POLICE were a big part of that too since Stewart Copeland’s father was Miles Copeland Sr a CIA officer and was linked allegedly to the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

    Again, I don’t intend entirely to sound sarcastic but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and while I appreciate your attempts to help awaken folks to the connections that are out there, perhaps it is just that it is ironic.

    Do you happen to have any information on Miles Copeland? His son Miles Copeland III is cited as helping to found the “New wave” movement …

  15. Neb
    August 16, 2012 at 2:39 am

    Hi, Jan loving the information your website has to offer. I was just wondering if you have come across anything Yoko Ono and John Lennon. I know she came from a wealthy banking family. I would just like to know if you know anything. Also what is your view on the movie Holy mountain?

    Cheers keep up the good work bro

    • Jan Irvin
      August 16, 2012 at 1:04 pm

      No I haven’t. Thanks for the lead.

  16. Tom Graph
    August 18, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Towards the end of your Frater-X interview you begin to make a comment (and we’re cut off) about them “discovering the techniques from the Dead Sea Scrolls and that they might’ve also discovered that the war scroll was still active.” Those techniques from the Dead Sea scrolls being what exactly ? And the war scroll still being active means what exactly ?

    • Jan Irvin
      August 18, 2012 at 1:05 pm

      Means there’s a war afoot. See my last interview with Joe Atwill.

  17. john
    August 21, 2012 at 5:30 am

    Tell me Jan, you rave on about Mushroom research of which most is Allegro’s work. You haven’t actually come up with anything new as far as I can discern?
    Have you actually taken the mushroom? If so, maybe you’d better talk about your cosmic experience from your own subjective experience?
    Mainly as I’ve studied your literature but you tend to use empirical rationalism when the mushroom destroys this kind of fallacious left brain, dead end, kind of feed back loop thinking. You use way too many words for someone who has had a mushroom experience. The left brain rational mind is rooted in deconstructionism, which eventually leads to Nihilism when taken to the extreme. When one observes your responses, you seem to be negating everyone else’s opinion over yours.
    I personally think this kind of thinking is dangerous as to there being no real conclusive outcome other than yours alone along with your work?
    All literature whether using citations or not are open for historical revisionism.
    When you don’t agree with someone you descend into abuse often without understanding that other’s have valid experience?

    All science is based off *observation with double blind experiments, but even then quantum theory shows that we as observers influence outcomes even on an atomic level?

    We as humans have relative viewpoints *especially when psychedelics are involved? They merely amplify what belief one already has and in some rare cases, real transmutation of consciousness happens?
    We live in a quantum. relative, world not *group mind.
    I actually think when everyone disagrees then we are getting closer to *reality than we think.

    If you get upset then I suggest you up your dosage of mushroom and really take the trip?

    • Jan Irvin
      August 21, 2012 at 8:06 am

      Hi John, what of my books and research have you read? What do you base your discernment on? Without rationality, how could you attempt to come to any conclusion?

      Clearly you’ve not studied any of my literature, have you? Could you tell me what my books say, and what they’re about? How would you do that without reading them first and knowing, rationally what they say? Or are you just going to make up lies…?

      How does the mushroom destroy rationalism and fact checking and verifying information before a conclusion? How do scientific researchers of psychedelics avoid using logic and all in their studies? Do they just make the shit up? How does the mushroom destroy the basic questions of who what where and when? What is rationalism? How does it come from the word ratio? Is it ok to go through our lives being irrational, illogical, and emotional and lying about everything? If mushrooms eliminate rationality as you say, then why are you here attempting, though failing, to have a rational conversation about your beliefs of rational? Do you not see the conundrum you’ve created for yourself being irrational?

      Why is it important for you to know if I’ve taken the mushroom or not? If you had actually studied my work as you claim, you’d already have this answer. I’ve discussed this very often in the more than 50 interviews here with many of the world’s leading experts on psychedelic drugs. I’ve written 3 books on them, which you’ve clearly read none of when you lie for your irrationalistic dogmatic, Kantian beliefs of yours. For your uneducated, irrational mind, John, I’ve tripped nearly 1300 times.. . far more than you and your fallacious “thinking” could comprehend.

      How does the left brain eventually lead to nihalism? Isn’t not being able to discern truth and fact and make sure that we’re focused on the right material what leads to nihilism – ie false beliefs – such as you hold here?

      How do I seem to be negating everyone’s opinion over my own? Are they my opinions, or are they based on the facts of the research which I’m able to verify and therefore spot an irrational liar who’s never read the work but thinks he can judge it and give feedback on it like some moron judge who refuses to see the evidence of a case before he judges it in court? Would you accept the outcome of a case from a judge who refused to study your evidence? Then why do you think your type of “thinking” here is ok? Why would you accept this type of “thinking” in your own life? Isn’t thinking to process information? If people haven’t actually processed the information, then are they thinking? Are you thinking, John? Would actually studying sources and research have anything to do with truth and avoiding nihalism and false opinions based on argumentum ad ignorantum, such as yours here? I’ll give you a hint, John. Yes.

      Wouldn’t following lies and irrationality, as you do, John, be the fastest trip to a nihalistic state? Hey, lets blindly follow the nazis, or the Zionists, et al, to our own demise and fact check nothing and base all of our conclusions on spacy feelgood nonsense, rather than trusting our 5 senses and learning to discern truth as an intelligent human being… Is that your motto, John?

      How does Kantian irrantionalism effect your judgements and conclusions? Who told you that the left brain rational mind leads to nihilism when taken to extreme? How do you know that? How did you fact check that? Have you ever studied logic or rational thought? If not, what do you base this conclusion on? Ignorance? Why do you base your conclusions on ignorance, John?

      How are you so certain that mushrooms destroy thinking and your ability to discover the truth? Maybe the opposite is true, but you’ve been lied to to believe the opposite.

      How am I not understanding someone’s so called valid experience when it doesn’t pertain to the actual research and they clearly haven’t even read the research? Does not an intelligent person have to read the research and citations before they can have intelligent feedback on it? Otherwise, how would they even know what it said? And therefore, how could they have valid opinions and feedback? Have I attacked anyone who actually read the research first? Did I attack anyone who didn’t think with fallacies, or lies, to reach their conclusions, such as you? Where? Could you show me?

      Quantum theory has been debunked, as we’ve well covered here on my show. Why are you bringing up pseudo-science here when we’ve clearly covered this nonsense? Who told you to believe in quantum theory? Did you fact check this? Or are you caught in a web of Kantian lies?

      Are you aware that Einstein’s relativity was debunked, too? Or do you just regurgitate what ever pseudo-scientific New Age nonsense that comes your way as fact, all the while dismissing rational thought?

      Is it that people have different view points just because, or is it because they refuse, as discussed during the show, to read the research and get on the same page, and remove their fallacies, their lies, before they come to conclusions on it, as you exemplify here?

      Can two people agree that white is white, that 1 + 1 = 2? If not, then you don’t belong here, but in an insane assylum. And you’ll never want to go to the store and spend money, cause you’d never get the right price or the right change. People like you who’ve bought all of the irrational lies by the NWO and those who wish to mind control you are the ultimate victims here. I wish I had a magic bullet to wake your ass up, but I don’t. And I fear that as imbedded in the lies as you are, there’s probably no hope to ever free you, and you no doubt already think you’re enlightened and evolved, hence your need to ignore everything that was said and published and come here expousing your latest regurgitation that you’ve never verified in reality yourself… so you’ve come here to sell your religion, to save me from thinking and being rational, and you want me to be irrational, and to ignore facts and make shit up as I go like you… but I don’t want to be delusional and irrational and unable to know truth like you.

      And who was it that made you believe that you can’t trust your 5 senses and have no ability to discern truth and reality? Who told you you don’t need to read and study something before you judge it? But most importantly, why did you believe such lies, such fallacious thinking, and then come here to regurgitate those lies without fact checking and doing your research first?

      If you’d care to read the information and study it thoroughly before making up a bunch of lies that you vomit on my blog, then maybe we could have an intelligent conversation. But I’ve no ability to converse with an irrational mind, incapable of thinking.

      Be well with that. Maybe there’s a place in the Pleiades for you.

  18. JJ
    August 21, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Hi Jan, or anyone who may know, could you recommend the best book you know of which teaches the trivium?

  19. August 28, 2012 at 10:29 am

    The C.I.A. Doctors: Human Rights Violations by American Psychiatrists
    By Colin A. Ross

    It verifies — corroborates — Jan’s research! Googlebook preview:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=g19YFuKqKeUC&pg=PT44&lpg=PT44&dq=amanita+muscaria+mkultra&source=bl&ots=Y-75BSCPTY&sig=SqSJ9aJANWVuHz67wHTPwkas5k0&hl=en#v=onepage&q=amanita%20muscaria%20mkultra&f=false

    • Jan Irvin
      August 28, 2012 at 4:02 pm

      I cite Ross. He’s in the brain with a red arrow pointing at Wasson.

  20. August 28, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Jan – Nick Redfern’s new book Pyramids and the Pentagon cites CIA document of 1956 refering to “Subject 16, Aberdeen, V77” who while tripping on Amanita Muscaria reported “a fanciful ‘journey ‘ to Egyptian Pyramids and told of sighting ‘flying stones’ and ‘flying saucers.”…Then another CIA report from 1959 referring to a Amanita Muscaria program participant who became fixated on Jean Dixon and Ruth Montgomery psychics who “attracted CIA attention.”

    Wow I can’t find any tie of CIA to amanita muscaria trips but I guess I’m searching MKULtra and maybe this was before that? Anyway….

  21. August 28, 2012 at 11:08 pm

    INTERVIEWER
    Do you admire Mr. Luce?

    BURROUGHS
    I don’t admire him at all. He has set up one of the greatest word and image banks in the world. I mean, there are thousands of photos, thousands of words about anything and everything, all in his files. All the best pictures go into the files. Of course, they’re reduced to microphotos now. I’ve been interested in the Mayan system, which was a control calendar. You see, their calendar postulated really how everyone should feel at a given time, with lucky days, unlucky days, et cetera. And I feel that Luce’s system is comparable to that. It is a control system. It has nothing to do with reporting. Time, Life, Fortune is some sort of a police organization.

    http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/4424/the-art-of-fiction-no-36-william-s-burroughs

    • Jan Irvin
      August 28, 2012 at 11:30 pm

      Wow, incredible. Thank you for this!!!!

  22. August 29, 2012 at 12:01 am

    William S. Burrough’s uncle:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_Lee

    “He evolved his philosophy in 1906 into the Declaration of Principles, the first articulation of the concept that public relations practitioners have a public responsibility that extends beyond obligations to the client.”

  23. slomo
    September 5, 2012 at 11:29 am

    Psychedelia has nothing at all to do with either the ‘new age movement’ nor (as you call it) the ‘positive thinking movement’. Your failure to recognise the distinction between a properly psychedelic thinker like Terence Mckenna and new age/overly positive thinking means your entire argument fails, as this is a core premise (the idea that new age and positive thinking is somehow a ‘secondary catch’ for trippers). And the only ‘evidence’ you cite in support of this idea, is one single line from John Lennon, taken out of context.

    • Jan Irvin
      September 5, 2012 at 11:39 am

      So you ignore the citations and the entire database I put out about this, you ignore my reference to Dr. Barbara Ehrenreich’s book Bright-Sided, and my interview with her, and then you proclaim that all I did was cite John Lennon.

      Nice straw man argument, but next time try not to IGNORE the citations at the TOP of the page. And the entire premise is that most of the psychedelic community is in fact this positive thinking, this “put your conclusions before your research” – as you exemplify here by leaping to false conclusions. And by the way, I said they SHOT Lennon after he woke up and started exposing much of this.

      Please do us all a favor and don’t go around IGNORING the citations and then proclaiming they don’t exist. Frater X and I discussed FOLLOWING ALONG in the database or ONLINE LINK so that you’re able to follow through and study the information.

      That Psychedelia has nothing at all to do with the new age movement is quite the proclamation. I suggest you spend some time studying the origins of both and then tell me again that they’re unrelated. Again, don’t ignore the citations provided.

      I used to try to hair split like you, but after serious study of mind control systems, and the trivium, which are extensively laid out here for your study, we’ve shown explicitly that your conclusion is false.

      Please start with the trivium study section to the left. There in you’ll also find Barbara Ehrenreich’s interview – which you ignored.
      http://media.blubrry.com/logosmedia/p/logosmedia.com/podcast/GnosticMedia_PC_053_Barbara_Ehrenreich_low.mp3

      You may also wish to go through the more than 50 interviews on this website with many of the world’s leading psychedelic experts – where we go into how much of this history has been distorted into the new age stuff. Terence Mckenna was a big promoter of the false definition of shamanism for instance: “Someone who’s been to the end of the world and lived to tell about it” etc. You may want to start with episode #06 – with Professor Neil Whitehead on Dark Shamanism. http://media.blubrry.com/logosmedia/p/logosmedia.com/podcast/GnosticMedia_PC_006_Neil_Whitehead_Dark_Shamans.mp3

      “Shamanism is a burgeoning obsession for the middle classes around the globe. It’s presentation in popular books, TV specials and on the internet is dominated by the presumed psychic and physical benefits that “shamanic techniques” can bring. This heightened interest has required a persistent purification of the ritual practices of those who inspire the feverish quest for personal meaning and fulfillment. Ironically, as Fausto points out in his essay in this volume (In Darkness and Secrecy – by Whitehead), given the self improvement motivations that have brought so many into popular understanding of shamanism, two defining aspects of shamanism in Amazonia: blood, ie violence, and tobacco, have simply been erased from such representations. ***Such erasure is not only a vein self deception, but more important it is a recapitulation of colonial ways of knowing through both the denial of radical cultural difference and refusal to think through its consequences.***”
      Prof. Neil Whitehead – Dept. of Anthropology – U. of Wisconsin, Madison, and Dr. Robin Wright.

      Just because you yell and proclaim that something isn’t so, doesn’t make it not so. Most of the “psychedelic shamanism” out there is a very whitewashed version of shamanism sold to the hippie/new age crowd – like you – who buy into it as their religion and then react emotionally like a religious zealot. The two philosophies are very much intermixed today – as even schools like CIIS teach both.

      There’s a massive amount of research on this website for you to study. Please don’t come here ignoring every bit of it and making your proclamations that you’ve all the answers. These are things that we’ve laid out extensively through very detailed research over many years.

      This website also happens to have the only study forum on the internet specifically dedicated to the study and revealing of dark shamanism and how widespread it is:
      https://logosmedia.com/communion/viewforum.php?f=14&sid=65ecd70f11e8e4d443b94077bbde704b

      TERROR AND VIOLENCE Imagination and the Unimaginable
      Chapter 6:
      THE SIGN OF KANAIMÀ, THE SPACE OF GUAYANA AND THE
      DEMONOLOGY OF DEVELOPMENT
      by Professor Neil L. Whitehead

      This chapter explores the way in which the shamanic complex of
      kanaimà becomes an articulation of the savagery and terror in both
      colonial and national cultures of north-eastern South America. The
      shamanic complex of kanaimà has become a central representation
      of the savage in both colonial and national cultures of north-eastern
      South America. Together with the cannibal sign, kanaimà is used to
      construct a vision of Satanic Majesty in Amazonia. This vision of a
      Satanic Majesty holding sway over indigenous cultures is used in turn
      to produce a demonology of development. This demonology pictures
      tradition and ritual as nothing but superstition and primitiveness,
      serving the ghoulish and violent desires emanating from this Satanic
      Majesty, who terrorizes the native population and is therefore the
      hidden enemy of development and progress. This idea of development,
      in Western discourse, alludes to forms of both material and spiritual
      redemption and advancement, and is understood here as part of the
      colonial and national conquest and incorporation of indigenous
      communities under the power of the state and government.
      Kanaimà, a term that refers both to a practice and to its practitioners,
      is a form of mystical assault that ritually requires the extensive
      physical maiming of its victims in order that they may be produced as
      a divine food. This carnal violence, primarily a mutilation of mouth
      and anus, renders the victim near dead but the process of slow death
      that occurs allows the formation of the magic substance maba within
      the body of the victim. The putrefaction of the cadaver in its grave
      then completes the cooking of the maba, which the kanaimà shamans
      suck from the belly of the victim. This substance cools the heat of the
      killers, augments the senses and physical abilities of the kanaimàs,
      and facilitates the location, tracking, and eventual assault of future
      victims (Whitehead 2002a).

  24. slomo
    September 6, 2012 at 3:19 am

    You have not answered my objection to your theory. Psychedelia has nothing to do with ‘new age’ or ‘positive thinking’, and you have not provided any evidence to the contrary, besides one line from John Lennon taken out of context.

    In your interview with Ehrenrich the subject of psychedelic drugs (and their alleged link with new age and positive thinking) does not come up at all. Ehrenrich never claims that psychedelia has anything to do with new age or positive thinking, she doesnt even mention psychedelic drugs once in her book about positive thinking, – so you are claiming that a book which never mentions psychedelia provides evidence for a link between psychedelia and new-age/positive thinking. This is obviously an incoherent claim, so your central premise fails, and your entire argument collapses.

    Furthermore your citation of Neil Whitehead is entirely irrelevant to this issue, since he (same as Ehrenrich) never claims that there is any link between psychedelic drugs and new-age/positive thinking.

    To summarise, you have invented a false claim (on the basis of zero real evidence) about there being a link between psychedelic drugs and positive thinking, then you have built an elaborate conspiracy theory on the basis of that initial false claim.

    • Jan Irvin
      September 6, 2012 at 9:00 am

      Slomo, I’ve cited her work constantly, and again, provided a database with 6000 citations. If I didn’t mention her in that particular interview, listen to the other one. I haven’t heard this one in a coule weeks, but I know it’s in them, but you’re likely wrong – as you’ve omitted many points and citations I provided – with your vacuous rants here. But again, we were going through the database, which showed it in there… So get caught up with the game and study the database, which you’ve omitted this go around with your Lennon BS. The database was specifically cited to study during the interview. If you havne’t, then you’re an ignorant liar about what information we provided and cited. See if you’re intelligent enough not to miss the database this go around. See if you’re capable of studying the 4th World information that we were specifically discussing, and how all of these things are related.

      Neil Whitehead specifically discusses Neo-Shamanism, which is psychedelia. Try to read his book where in he discusses these ayahauasca tourists and neo-shamanism, which is what Terence McKenna exactly sold – and being that the version of shamanism that’s sold by people like McKenna also is surrounded in psychedelia, they’re very much intrinsically related. I cited you two books to read there, not just a quote, so try to use that grey matter between your ears.

      So because you didn’t read either of these people’s books, you pretend that they don’t discuss it? That’s just retarded. Come on “Slomo” – you can do this. You’re supposed to be smart, right? And by the way, if you listen to my Red Ice interview I specifically did relate to Ehreinreich and this other material. But just because she doesn’t mention the word psychedelic, doesn’t mean we’re not talking about the exact same thing. Try focuses on the similar/identical practices between each, if parts of the new age or positivist movement to mention psychedics… however, many psychedelic books do cleary discuss positive thinking and new age.
      But I like the fact how you’ve omitted your lie about Lennon now.. Dropped your false claim all together, and then after ignoring the citations, drivel on about the other two.
      Try to consider this quote more deeply this time before you hair split:
      “Shamanism is a burgeoning obsession for the middle classes around the globe. It’s presentation in popular books, TV specials and on the internet is dominated by the presumed psychic and physical benefits that “shamanic techniques” can bring. This heightened interest has required a persistent purification of the ritual practices of those who inspire the feverish quest for personal meaning and fulfillment. Ironically, as Fausto points out in his essay in this volume (In Darkness and Secrecy – by Whitehead), given the self improvement motivations that have brought so many into popular understanding of shamanism, two defining aspects of shamanism in Amazonia: blood, ie violence, and tobacco, have simply been erased from such representations. ***Such erasure is not only a vein self deception, but more important it is a recapitulation of colonial ways of knowing through both the denial of radical cultural difference and refusal to think through its consequences.***”
      Prof. Neil Whitehead – Dept. of Anthropology – U. of Wisconsin, Madison, and Dr. Robin Wright.

      So please, define for us Slomo, what you think the New Age IS, and what you think positive thinking IS, what psychedelia IS, and then provide us the difference between each.
      I provided you a database to study through – which you ignored, and I also said to study the origins of both. I specifically discussed the 4th world and how all of these ideas are related, how they’re centered on the idea of the world citizen. Why did you ignore all of this, and the database to come here and lie and focus on drivel nonsense?

      So maybe you haven’t really read much of what composes psychedelia, shamanism and new age literature, maybe you haven’t been to a book store, but if you can’t see it, you’re incredibly blind or haven’t studied much. And when I provided you direct quotes from professors talking about this very issue, and you go off and split psychedelia from shamanism because he doesn’t say the word psychedelic in that sentence is a bit of stupid hair splitting and I’m not willing to travel down to that level of dumb with you to get you to comprehend your agenda driven stance and inability to think over this information rationally.
      I’ve no interest in someone who’s not going to study the material, read the books cited and discussed in the interviews and can’t see the very obvious similarities between the new age and positive thinking movements – which are the exact same things sold out of Esalen and Carlos Castaneda books, and just about every other new age / shamanism / positive thinking book out there – and shamanism relates to psychedelia, and you can read all about the positive thinking aspects in the very books by Castaneda and in books like Shamans Wisdom that sell these very ideas of “don’t worry, be happy”.
      Try this out. When you go to your local book store – you’ll find psychedelia books under what section? That’s right – new age. Duh.

      Just because Ehrenreich doesn’t specifically name “psychedelia”, doesn’t mean it’s not this exact same mentality and these exact same practices and pillow sitting that you exemplify here. Did you even listen to here interview? Clearly you didn’t read her book. Positive thinking is what you find RAMPANT in psycedelic culture – anytime anyone presents any factual information about anything that may not be happy news, they’re told “you’re being negative, I need to clear the air” etc… this is postive thinking. Maybe you’re not familiar with what new age or positive thinking is? Maybe you’ve actually never been around the psychedelic culture?!

      So please start by defining what you think they mean. Please also define who psychedelia and how this positive, pillow sitting mentality that comes directly from psychedelia is not psychedelia. I’ve furhter shown you how both come from Esalen and CIIS. You may also go to any number of “evolver spores” and the like where they talk about love and positive thinking and not being negative regarding political issues and the like. so how are these not positive thinking again?
      Silly fools.
      To summarize, it’s not a false claim at all. Again, you’re ignoring half the information. I also said to study the trivium material. I didn’t state to study only those two talks. Have you studied through episodes 49 – 51 first off? What about the rest of the trivium material? Did you listen to Whitehead’s full talk even? Now I didn’t ever relate Whitehead’s book to positive thinking, but to Neo-Shamanism, and what is new age shamanism – which is surrounded by this positive thinking BS. You’re the one again trying now to split that off of psychedelia. .. Again, new age shamanism is related to shamanism, New age shamanism is related to postive thinking. Shamanism and neo shamanism are related to psychedelics. New age psychedelic use promotes positive thinking – which you can find in any of a thousand books on this subject.
      Psychedelica is very much the new age, positive thinking movement, there is no seperation, regardless of how much guys like you, Slomo, try to split there hairs. Again, go look in the book section of your store – it’s called the new age section. Furthermore, where will you find the positive thinking books – like The Secret? That’s right – in the New Age section. And where do you find the new age books, Slomo? If you said the “New Age” section, you’d be correct. Coincidence?

      What I find really interesting and astounding though, is that you’ve missed the ENTIRE POINT of the interview, and came here to bust my balls regarding your new age positive thinking religious beliefs and missed the point of the entire conversation and mind control, the CIA, et al. That’s absolutely astounding. I mean, why the narrow focus? What’s your agenda? What are you trying to protect here? You’ve got some new age, positive thinking nonsense that you sell that you feel the need to come here and protect? Very strange how you’d focus on something that bears so little to what was being discussed, and draw all of this out for your fantasy delusion that pyschedelia and positive thinking and new age haven’t all come together – when in fact that’s simply all they are.

      It’s amazing the prezel logic and song and dance people dream up to make such unfounded distinctions.

  25. Jan Irvin
    September 6, 2012 at 9:01 am

    Waist my time with moronic trolls… incredible the lack of critical thinking some people exemplify.

  26. dbrown
    September 17, 2012 at 7:46 pm

    so what was the purpose of launching the psychadelic revolution?

    • Jan Irvin
      September 17, 2012 at 7:56 pm

      Please read the paper listed. 🙂

      • dbrown
        September 18, 2012 at 7:53 pm

        Hey jan,

        Let me start of by saying your working is amazing….connecting all the dots. Picking up on what so many have missed! I know you kind of touched on this at the end of the interview but what is your stance on Psychadelics? Does your stance differ between plant entheogens and man made entheogens? Just curious…

        • dbrown
          September 21, 2012 at 12:09 pm

          Nevermind…. i think i have come to find the answer through further review of you materials. I should, as you state, review the materials before questioning it. I do however have a question about the trivium. How do you think the trivium relates to intuition? does critical thinking affect your intuition?

  27. Doc_Luk
    September 30, 2012 at 7:49 am

    Jan, you were cut off in the middle of your comment about the “War Scroll”. I am very interested in where you were going with that thought, could you please elaborate?

    Thank you!

    • Doc_Luk
      September 30, 2012 at 7:50 am

      Just saw your reply to Tom Graph above, sorry for the repeat question. Kindly disregard.

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